On Simulators as assist to IFR training.

Mike Ash writes:

My guess is that it's just limited by the technology. Air-band radios
use AM with not a whole lot of power output, and I imagine that's
limiting. If we could start from scratch with a nice modern digital
protocol I imagine it would be a lot better. But as with many things,
legacy rules. It doesn't help any that the aircraft radio market is
miniscule, so we don't get to benefit from economies of scale the way,
say, the cell phone market does.

The aviation market is also very heavily regulated, which slows change and
raises prices. (That does not mean that safety-motivated regulations are
bad--I'm just making an observation.)

Clark writes:

On another note, at least you admit your radio "challenges." Too bad mxy
can't deal with the fact that he has no clue when it comes to real world
activities.

I do very well when it comes to radio. Indeed, I could be very useful to a
private pilot unfamiliar with ATC, since I know exactly what to say and expect
and he most likely does not.

Clark writes:

How would you know?

By listening to both.

You've never used a real world radio.

I've listened to them regularly.

Sometimes people here are really reaching. Do you really think that I need a
radio on my desk in order to hear what a radio sounds like?

That's a bit like people who say you can't judge a digital photo unless you
have the camera that took it.

On Mar 7, 3:16*am, Mxsmanic wrote:
a writes:
It would be amusing to have MX copy a real clearance, wouldn't it?

I do it all the time, and it's easy once you're used to it.

Maybe not from JFK but a smaller airport. Want to bet there would be
several "say again's", followed by the delivery guy saying something
like "read my lips".

It would actually be something like "Readback is correct."

Of course, many private pilots cannot copy a clearance correctly, if they
aren't already used to doing so.

Youn have never heard "Readback is correct" from a real controller
over the radio in response to your readback of the issued flight plan
that was based on a flight plan you filed. . Never.You can type the
type, but never copied a clearance in a cockpit, nor ever flew it.
You, pretending, have no basis on which to compare reality.

In article ,
Clark wrote:

At least you talk on CTAF. I took a glider ride with a local club and was
amazed they didn't even bother with a radio. They fly in an area with 7
flight schools within a 10 mile radius. I didn't go back to get my glider
ticket...

That is unfortunate, both that they don't talk and that you didn't go
back (although I can understand why you didn't!). We fly out of a public
airport with a fair amount of other traffic. While legally we could be
silent on the radio, it wouldn't be smart, and it would also put us in
hot water with the airport management. Club policy *requires* a working
radio in any glider that flies with us.

On another note, at least you admit your radio "challenges." Too bad mxy
can't deal with the fact that he has no clue when it comes to real world
activities.

I believe the term for a pilot who doesn't know his own limitations is
"dead". The term for a simmer who doesn't know his own limitations is
"annoying". So he can get away with it.

Of course in rebuttal MX would say something either about the quality
of the radio, or of the guy giving the clearance. FWIW, I do wonder if
bad audio quality is required in aviation radios?

My guess is that it's just limited by the technology. Air-band radios
use AM with not a whole lot of power output, and I imagine that's
limiting. If we could start from scratch with a nice modern digital
protocol I imagine it would be a lot better. But as with many things,
legacy rules. It doesn't help any that the aircraft radio market is
miniscule, so we don't get to benefit from economies of scale the way,
say, the cell phone market does.

It's an interesting problem. Some days I've talked to folks 70+ miles away
and had it be crystal clear. Other days, well, it's not so good. For local
airport control the system is great and I have no complaints. Talking to
center while on long x-country out west can be another story all-together.

"Dakota 8089V, roger, report snap, pop, BING"

"Say again, read you weak and staticy, 89V"

"Dak crackle, zzzit er"

"Roger center, report EHVER, 89V"

There's a lot to be said about radio free Colorado...

Yep, sometimes the reception can be *too* good. Like any small airport,
the one where I fly shares a frequency with other airports some distance
away, and their traffic can often be heard. Nothing like having some
charter pilot flying in to the big airport 50 miles south droning on and
on about where he's going to pick up his passengers and is the rental
car there yet and he's going to need so much fuel and so forth when I'm
trying to do my landing checklist. Sometimes, once I'm away from the
airport area, I'll just switch off the radio altogether.

And then sometimes you can't hear the guy when he's two miles away. We
had a persistent problem with the radio in our tow plane for a while
where the thing was just weak. I believe we replaced literally every
component in the system before we finally got it back to being
acceptable.

All part of the fun, I suppose. I figure that you need to enjoy or at
least appreciate funky equipment if you really want to get the most out
of being a pilot.

--
Mike Ash
Radio Free Earth
Broadcasting from our climate-controlled studios deep inside the Moon

Mxsmanic wrote:
writes:

And you know this because of your extensive time in real airplanes?

I know in from listening to both real radios and simulated radios. Sitting in
an airplane doesn't have any magic effect on their quality.

Nope, no magic involved, the effects are well known.

Being at altitude means you hear a lot more than you ever hear on the
ground; all the static crashes, all the other airplanes for a hundred
or so miles and all the precipitation static.

Then there is the plain old noise that no headset ever totally eliminates.

And to top it off, there is the equipement itself which is well baked
and vibrated which tends to put it in less than hi-fi quality.

Yeah, you know all about it from sitting in your easy chair.


--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

Mxsmanic wrote:
Mike Ash writes:

My guess is that it's just limited by the technology. Air-band radios
use AM with not a whole lot of power output, and I imagine that's
limiting. If we could start from scratch with a nice modern digital
protocol I imagine it would be a lot better. But as with many things,
legacy rules. It doesn't help any that the aircraft radio market is
miniscule, so we don't get to benefit from economies of scale the way,
say, the cell phone market does.

The aviation market is also very heavily regulated, which slows change and
raises prices. (That does not mean that safety-motivated regulations are
bad--I'm just making an observation.)

Nonsense, the aviation radio service is no more regulated than any other
public safety radio service.

Aviation radios are expensive mostly because of the economies of scale and
the harsh environment in which they operate which increases the cost to
make them reliable.

How many years have you spent simming being in an avionics shop to reach
your conclusions?


--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

On Mar 8, 12:32*am, a wrote:
On Mar 7, 3:16*am, Mxsmanic wrote:

a writes:
It would be amusing to have MX copy a real clearance, wouldn't it?

I do it all the time, and it's easy once you're used to it.

Maybe not from JFK but a smaller airport. Want to bet there would be
several "say again's", followed by the delivery guy saying something
like "read my lips".

It would actually be something like "Readback is correct."

Of course, many private pilots cannot copy a clearance correctly, if they
aren't already used to doing so.

Youn have never heard "Readback is correct" from a real controller
over the radio in response to your readback of the issued flight plan
that was based on a flight plan you filed. . Never.You can type the
type, but never copied a clearance in a cockpit, nor ever flew it.
You, pretending, have no basis on which to compare reality.

He doesn't know that before you have a PPL in your pocket you have to
have a Radio Rating..
Is it just my impression or is MX getting crazier ?

On Mar 7, 2:45*pm, george wrote:
On Mar 8, 12:32*am, a wrote:





On Mar 7, 3:16*am, Mxsmanic wrote:

a writes:
It would be amusing to have MX copy a real clearance, wouldn't it?

I do it all the time, and it's easy once you're used to it.

Maybe not from JFK but a smaller airport. Want to bet there would be
several "say again's", followed by the delivery guy saying something
like "read my lips".

It would actually be something like "Readback is correct."

Of course, many private pilots cannot copy a clearance correctly, if they
aren't already used to doing so.

Youn have never heard "Readback is correct" from a real controller
over the radio in response to your readback of the issued flight plan
that was based on a flight plan you filed. . Never.You can type the
type, but never copied a clearance in a cockpit, nor ever flew it.
You, pretending, have no basis on which to compare reality.

He doesn't know that before you have a PPL in your pocket you have to
have a Radio Rating..
Is it just my impression or is MX getting crazier ?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I think he's not getting crazier, he's getting what he does not get in
real life: attention. Those who respond give his opinions more weight
than they deserve. Here he can and does engage and provoke his
superiors (in personal economics, aviation experience, and so on) when
very few of us, should we be in close proximity (slumming?) would
spend much time talking with him. He would be ignored by most of us.
He has, you see, won.

In article ,
Clark wrote:

Nothing like getting someone's life history, err well, their entire plan of
action for the near future over the radio. On a recent quiet Sunday afternoon
I just couldn't resist and asked if the long winded feller was gonna take a
picture too.

Speaking of which, I eventually decided that when they're doing that and
I need to start making calls, I'd just start making them, and too bad
about stepping on his transmission. (Flying a glider, I don't have a lot
of time in the pattern to wait for him to get done counting out the
individual parcels in his baggage compartment.) The way I figure it,
since he's 50 miles away, my transmission will be really weak down where
he is, so it won't interfere. And likewise, my transmission will
overpower his at my airport, so the people who need to hear me will hear
me.

The question I have for the group is this: does that actually make
sense, or am I just making up a load of baloney and messing with these
poor guys' radio calls?

All part of the fun, I suppose. I figure that you need to enjoy or at
least appreciate funky equipment if you really want to get the most out
of being a pilot.

I'm kinda liken' my funky equipment these days. My CFII frequently forgets
how the radios are set up so he gets this puzzled look and has to stop and
work through it. Keeps him humble I say. It's all fun until I go into brain
lock after a couple hours under the hood and make the same error...

My favorite incident of this nature was a couple of years ago when my
club took our primary trainer to another airport for a camp. I was
descending out of wave with my instructor, and had an idea: unlike the
home field, this airport had an ASOS (how fancy!), so let's actually
listen in to find out what the winds were like before we land!

So I reach down to the radio and start turning the knobs and... nothing.

"Hey Bob, how do you change the frequency on this thing?"

"Um... you tried turning the frequency knobs? I dunno...."

Turned out *neither* of us had ever changed the frequency on this radio,
always leaving it to our local CTAF all the time.

(Afterwards I discovered that this particular radio was built around the
idea of programmable channels. One knob, which I hadn't noticed at the
time, switches between 10 or so different channels. A red button, when
held down, allows the tuning knobs to adjust the currently selected
channel. Nifty, but not exactly intuitive!)

--
Mike Ash
Radio Free Earth
Broadcasting from our climate-controlled studios deep inside the Moon