Leaving the community

"Cecil Chapman" wrote in message
m...
Stupidly, they nominated a guy whose political positions were to the
left
of Ted Kennedy's, absolutely ensuring a Bush victory.

There were many traditional Republicans out here -- myself included --
who
would have voted for a conservative Democrat in this election. But
there
was just no way for any of us to vote for a guy like Kerry.

The moral for the Democrats: Don't ever nominate an ultra liberal to
run
for president again.

I have often wondered how some people come to the conclusions that they
do.
Jay,,, for goodness sake you sound like you are a sock-puppet mouthing the
words of his puppeteer (Bush - who was famous for the 'Kerry's just like
T.
Kennedy' line). Kerry was far left? How, where? If anything he was as
centrist as Clinton was. You'd think he belonged to the Communist party
to
hear the prattle that is coming off of your tongue.

Kerry's testimony before the Fulbright committee and his meetings with
Communist leaders during a time of war sound pretty far left to me.


Unlike the man whose words you mouth, Kerry didn't pull special favors to
get into the National Guard to avoid the draft (he VOLUNTEERED for duty),

Bush volunteered for duty, too, and was subject to being sent to SEA. Unlike
Kerry, he did not incite the enemy to abuse prisoners of war, commit war
crimes, or make false claims that everyone else in SEA was committing war
crimes.

Kerry was never arrested DUI, nor was he a cocaine user. While our boys
were ducking bullets and embroiled in a hopeless conflict - Bush was
having
beer parties with the boys - occasionally remembering to show up for
National Guard duty.

Nevertheless, Bush managed to remember who was President when Kerry was SEA,
which Kerry did not. He also managed to remember where he was, while Kerry
imagines he was in Cambodia.

Also, I'll bet you never even took the time to watch
the footage of Kerry before the special hearing on Vietnam (which Bush
would
refer to often, without even citing a single in-context quote from) when
Kerry spoke most eloquently without political bile of what was wrong with
the Vietnam War and how it was a mistake.

Oh, please. Making false claims that people were stringing ears together
into necklaces is not political bile?

He did this AFTER having been
there (something Bush in his petty cowardice, never did). He went there,
saw how things were going and recognized that we (the US) had made a
mistake. There wasn't a single misspoken word in his speech, back then
(you
see, unlike you, I took it upon myself to view all the footage of the
hearing - before forming my opinions). Does integrity mean anything to
you?


Apparently it means nothing to you.

I worry about a country where there are individuals that can be so easily
molded with a political dogma and never bother to question or actively
challenge the ideas that are being presented to them. I've voted for
Democratic candidates, I've voted for Republican,,, you want to know why,
Jay? Because it is the benefit for the country that counts not 'belonging
to a club' and following their 'election charter' like some mindless
automaton.

You apparently swallowed Kerry's bilge hook, line and sinker without doing
much fact checking.


Your candidate entered a war with an 'enemy' (Saddam) who had not attacked
us while the fellow that directly attacked us is running around,
comfortably
making videos and apparently eating well.

Saddam had attacked us numerous times -- shooting at UN aircraft patrolling
the no-fly zone, paying bounties to terrorists who killed Americans, etc.

Bush claimed he was entering the
war to save the people from his cruel tyranny - but what about the massive
genocide that is going on in parts of Africa right now - I haven't heard a
peep from Bush about that, or China's human rights violations, or North
Korea's forming nuclear arsenal ---- Ooops,,,, wait,,,,, I get it
now,,,,,,,, there is no OIL in Africa where innocents are being
slaughtered
every day,,, there is no OIL in North Korea....

There is no OIL in Afghanistan, either, nor does America import OIL from
Iraq. If Iraq is about OIL, where is the OIL?

Isn't it funny,,,, a
president who is against stem cell research (which only the ignorant don't
know) uses embryos and NOT fetuses, has BIG problems with using a frozen
embryo that must be discarded after a certain length of time,,,, BUT he
will
NOT hesitate to sacrifice living, breathing, human beings in a war that
had
NO business being fought (I'm talking about Iraq here). So, he will put
living human beings (including women and children involved in collateral
damage from bombings that go astray) in body bags,,, but wait! Don't ya
dare touch a frozen embryo in a 'cryogenics' freezer. Can YOU say ,
hypocrisy? God forbid, that you are your loved one needs medical aid that
some new stem cell technology could offer.

While I disagree with Bush's stance on stem cell research, I also disagree
with Kerry on partial birth abortion.


If there is any hope for our country, it will be when people learn to
abandon their mindless following of party affiliation and do as I (and
others) do; simply vote for the best man/woman for the job.


And in fact Kerry was not the best person for the job. He was quite possibly
the worst.

But don't let intelligence or logic, pry you away from your blissful
ignorance. I hope one day, people like you will learn to challenge and
learn more about what they are told as fact FROM ANY SOURCE,,, then we
will
REALLY have a great Nation.

A mind is truly a terrible thing to waste..........


I would genuinely like to see you start to use yours, if you have any left
after giving so many pieces of it away. :-)

"Cecil Chapman" wrote in message
m...
P.S. You're right, we should all thank Mr. Bush for turning a hard-earned
surplus budget (earned under Clinton's rule) into a 4.3 trillion dollar
DEFICIT.

That is really funny coming from a Democrat. Here we have Democrats accusing
Bush of behaving too much like a Democrat. ROFL.

"Peter Duniho" wrote in message
...
"Greg Butler" wrote in message
. ..
[...] most Bush voters, however, look at the data first, then make up
their minds.

Which Bush voters? The 64% that still believe that Saddam Hussein was
involved in the 9/11 attacks?

What percentage of Kerry voters still believe that Bush has a secret plan
for the draft? Oh, wait. I guess Gallup did not want to ask questions that
would make Democrats uncomfortable.

"Cecil Chapman" wrote in message
m...


Guns
He's a hunter, I'm pretty sure they use guns for that (he's not a
bowhunter). Just because one doesn't support ownership of AK-47's and
public access to armor-piercing bullets doesn't make one an enemy to gun
ownership.

Bush does not support ownership of AK-47s, either. Allowing the so-called
"assault weapons" ban to expire had nothing to do with AK-47s or any other
real assault weapon.

In fact, his record as a senator reveals that he has
consistently supported appropriate gun ownership. I own two shotguns and
a
couple of rifles - don't hunt, but skeet and target shoot. Even still, I
just don't think the average citizen needs armor-piercing bullets or
AK-47's
(unless you live in remote parts of Alaska grin)/.

?, gay marriage

He stated he was against 'gay marriage'

What he actually said was that although he was against it, he would support
local actions to institute it or to create it substantively through civil
unions. Typical Kerry -- taking both sides of the position at once.

This is not just a religious issue, no matter how hard you try to paint it
that way. It has serious economic and social ramifications.

"C J Campbell" wrote in message
...
It would have been interesting if the Gallup poll would have asked Kerry's
supporters whether Bush really had a secret plan to introduce the draft,
or
whether Bush lost those explosives, or whether Bush had a secret plan to
get
rid of Social Security, or whether Bush was behind a secret conspiracy to
create a flu vaccine shortage.

Absolutely, it would have been interesting. Some of your examples are
extreme, and I doubt significant numbers would have affirmed those examples.
But surely it would have turned up a similar lack of knowledge of the actual
facts.

The Gallup poll only addressed Republican myths. If it had asked about
Democratic myths it might perhaps have been considerably more balanced in
its result.

I guess that depends on what information you're interested. But none of
your alternative examples seem nearly as important as the question of
whether a sitting President lied about what he knew, in order to win
approval for a war that wound up miring us in a huge stinking pile of doo,
and then continued to lie about what he said straight through the election.

My main point was simply that the electorate in general believes what they
want to believe, regardless of what the actual truth is. This is true of
all people, regardless of party affiliation. My secondary, much less
important point (especially now that the election is over), might be that I
personally feel that lying to the public in order to justify a deadly war is
a much bigger transgression than has been witnessed in the Executive branch
since the Iran-Contra scandal.

Pete

"C J Campbell" wrote in message
...
What percentage of Kerry voters still believe that Bush has a secret plan
for the draft?

Welcome back CJ. You are just as unable to comprehend a point as ever.

"Richard Hertz" no one@no one.com wrote in message
. net...

"Matt Barrow" wrote in message
...

"Richard Hertz" no one@no one.com wrote in message
. net...

"Cecil Chapman" wrote in message
m...
You need to get a clue.

Naw,,, you just require a specialist to speak with regarding your
paranoid
thoughts.


And what paranoid thoughts were those? I can't see anything in my
posts
that qualifies as paranoia. You choose to project some mistaken
beliefs
in
my reasons for owning firearms.

http://www.heretical.com/sexsci/bpsychol.html



WTF is this all about?
or as the canadans say, "aboot?"


Ummm...about psychology?

"Dave Stadt" wrote in message
m...

"Rip" wrote in message
. com...
Or as in a well regulated clock, meaning operating well and efficiently.

You left out accuracy which as the railroads found out was pretty
important.

And the navies of the world.

(see 'Longitude', by Dava Sobel, thestory of John Harrison, the man who
invented the chronograph)


--
Matt
---------------------
Matthew W. Barrow
Site-Fill Homes, LLC.
Montrose, CO

"C J Campbell" wrote in message
...

"Cecil Chapman" wrote in message
m...
Unlike the man whose words you mouth, Kerry didn't pull special favors
to
get into the National Guard to avoid the draft (he VOLUNTEERED for
duty),

Kerry, by his own admission, volunteered for the Navy RESERVE...SPECIFICALLY
to avoid duty in SEA.


Bush volunteered for duty, too, and was subject to being sent to SEA.

He also volunteered for rather hazardous duty...duty that was patently
hazardous even if he never left Texas, much less tha US. He also volunteered
for duty in VietNam, but was turned down.

In the same vien, Kerry was sent to the Swift Boats, not voluntarily, but
becasue he was a pain in ths ass "Sea Lawyer" (the Navy equivalent of a
civilian "****house lawyer") and his commander wated his off his ship.


Unlike
Kerry, he did not incite the enemy to abuse prisoners of war, commit war
crimes, or make false claims that everyone else in SEA was committing war
crimes.

And that says a lot, even aside from his overt acts of treason. That is why
there are still serious question that his first discharge was "less than
honorable". Of course, his massively hypocritical hiding his record (why?)
can only fuel the question.


--
Matt
---------------------
Matthew W. Barrow
Site-Fill Homes, LLC.
Montrose, CO

"C J Campbell" wrote in message
...

"Cecil Chapman" wrote in message
m...
P.S. You're right, we should all thank Mr. Bush for turning a
hard-earned
surplus budget (earned under Clinton's rule) into a 4.3 trillion dollar
DEFICIT.

That is really funny coming from a Democrat. Here we have Democrats
accusing
Bush of behaving too much like a Democrat. ROFL.

And using 2nd grade explanations of history.

Yeah, democrats are so SAVVY....for nine year olds.


--
Matt
---------------------
Matthew W. Barrow
Site-Fill Homes, LLC.
Montrose, CO