How much do you trim?

In article ,
Mxsmanic wrote:

How much do you trim?

For myself, not too much off the sides and just a tidy up at the back.

For my sim - a piece of card under the offending desk leg usually works
just fine.

For my plane - it's complicated to explain but easy to do - you learn
about it during flight training.

Tony

transpose Tony and "you're becoming a pain in the ass" to reach me by
email.


--

Tony Roberts
PP-ASEL
VFR OTT
Night
Cessna 172H C-GICE

"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com wrote in message
...
Mxsmanic wrote:
If you don't want to answer my question, why waste my time and yours?

You have the balls to ask about wasting time?

It's Usenet. It doesn't take "balls" to write anything you want.

cjcampbell writes:

You should be able to take your hands off the controls without the
airplane changing attitude. You set your pitch and then trim to hold it
there. You should never have to use more than two fingers to control
the plane.

The closest I can come in a sim is to keep the plane trimmed so I
don't have to move the joystick, but I guess that's a useful
approximation. In real life, from what I understand, the controls
would actually be in a different position, assuming that they are
mechanically linked to the control surfaces.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com wrote in message
...
Tom Young wrote:
Second that. The C150 I fly requires a lot less trim than the C172, to
the
point that I forget to use it sometimes. The 172 really doesn't let me
forget.


I ferried a C-172 with a coworker up to an engine shop a few years ago as
one of a flight of two. When we got there, I got into the back of the
other C-172. After we took off, I carefully noted when the pilot trimmed
the aircraft, then leaned forward to engage the guys in the front in
conversation. The pilot would fly along for a minute or two, then retrim.
I'd lean back and wait a few minutes until he retrimmed yet again. Then I
leaned forward to talk to the guys up front again.... making cracks about
his apparent inability to hold altitude.

Heh heh... I must have done it four or five times before the pilot caught
on. G Lucky for me, there was no ejection seat in the C-172.
--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com

About 3 months after I got my private certificate, I decided to go back for
a little XC with the CFI who had actually been my CFI at the time of my
checkride in order to just make sure I hadn't started to develop any early
bad habits.

As we were headed southeast from Phoenix, ATC called traffic overtaking us
from our six o'clock and co-alt (ATC was not talking to that traffic...)
Try as we might, we couldn't pick him up and eventually ATC suggests we
descend. Right before I reach to retard the throttle and before I can push
the nose down, my good old CFI racks the passenger seat back to the rear
stop and just flops the seat flat trying to look up through the rear
windows. We immediately gain about 150 feet which probably was not a good
thing since we were pretty sure the conflicting traffic was above and behind
us.

Scared the hell out of me and I didn't let him hear the end of it all the
way to our destination (and part of the way back, too...)

Jay B

A,

But no, based on his posting history, I'd bet he would find an excuse for
not doing this......


He's deadly afraid of flying, in case you haven't noticed. And of many other
things.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

I flew a J-3 Piper Cub, which has a crank handle (actually the window
handle from a Model A Ford, I believe) lower left where it can be
reached from front or rear seat. While it's possible to fly without
trimming, it's annoying to continually hold stick pressure, and I
think it's a bit dangerous on landing and even on takeoff. At those
times you want a 'nice' feel for the stick, which is spoiled if you
are holding it fore or aft in order to get neutral (if you follow!).

Basically, I check the position of the stabiliator (pitch trim on the
Cub is done by moving the front of the horizontal stabilizer up and
down--with an automobile jack worm!) while doing my preflight
walkaround. My pre-takeoff checklist is CIGARS, with the A standing
for Attitude, and at that letter I eyeball the trim indicator. I have
on rare occasions adjusted the trim in the course of taking off, if I
find myself holding forward stick in order to stay about say 50 mph on
the airspeed indicator.

I trim for level flight after I've finished the climb. Most of the
time that's full forward, and sometimes full forward isn't enough and
I hold a bit of forward stick.

And I trim for glide when I cut my power on the downleg opposite the
numbers. The object is to glide at 60 mph on the airspeed indicator;
that's neutral trim with the power off.

I did some training at Chandler AZ in a Super Cub, and the instructor
insisted that I stop trimming on landing. I didn't like it much, and
as soon as I was alone I reverted to going to neutral trim on every
downwind. (I suppose he was having me adjust the power on each leg of
the pattern, so I was adjusting trim on downwind, base, and final.)

No rudder or aileron trim on the Cub.

On Mon, 09 Oct 2006 16:55:16 +0200, Mxsmanic
wrote:

So how do you know when you need it?

Plane doesn't fly straight & level. Wants to lose altitude, less often
to gain altitude. Or in a climb, wants to climb at an angle
approaching stall. Or in a landing, wants to dive instead of glide.

The great thing is to be able to hold the stick so lightly that your
fingers aren't really touching it; the plane flies itself.

(Can't speak for those planes with steering wheels

Not for nothing is it called a joystick!

On Mon, 09 Oct 2006 17:04:35 +0200, Mxsmanic
wrote:

But if you set by feel, how do you keep track of how much control
surface movement you have remaining? If the trim has a control
service held very near the limit of its travel, you might run out of
space when you need it.

That's what 'weight & balance' calculations are all about!

And that's why you don't fly a J-3 Cub solo from the front seat. It's
just barely possible (if it's not placarded!) but you run the risk of
running out of control with the stick.

In the Cub, I always run out of TRIM control in level flight. It's
right up against the stop.

Mxsmanic wrote:
The thing I wonder about is the possible distraction of trimming the
aircraft. It looks like trim controls are often in spots like the
pedestal or throttle quadrant, where presumably one must direct one's
attention in order to adjust trim. It's hard to imagine doing this
during critical phases of flight such as take-off or landing, and yet
I read recommendations for trim in both cases. Where do you draw the
line between trimming unnecessarily and not trimming enough? How
often do you actually reach for the trim controls?

You can compare the trim thing a bit like changing gears in a car.
One knows where the gear lever is without looking and you know what to
do without thinking(release accelorator, press clutch, change gear,
release clutch while rev up engine)
Trimming a plane is about the same when it comes to distraction and
attention needed.

-Kees.

On 2006-10-09, Mxsmanic wrote:
Robert M. Gary writes:

I don't think its a waste of time. Most FBOs offer a $49 intro ride.

Two days' wages for me. And there's still no way to get out to the
airport. And this is France, so you can multiply all costs by a
factor of 3 to 10.

Is pay really that low in France? That would be well below the minimum
wage just across the water in the UK presumably you're talking about
full time. (Or maybe you're a kid still living at home - I don't know).

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