Straight-ins at uncontrolled airports?

On Mon, 05 Feb 2007 14:33:48 -0800, Jim wrote:

On Mon, 05 Feb 2007 21:08:30 GMT, "Steven P. McNicoll"
wrote:


"ktbr" wrote in message
...

Straight in approaches have always been acceptable as long
as you can do it safely, maintain visual, give right of way
to lower aircraft, be aware of A/C in the patten, announce
your position/intentions, etc. etc. etc. It is highly
recommended to do a standard pattern entry to the downwind
leg of the pattern.


An aircraft on final has the right-of-way.

Yes. This is particularly wonderful when a pilot announces a
five-mile straight-in final to an uncontrolled field.

On the GPS for 06 or 24 five miles for me is a tad over 2 minutes.
With a Jet it maybe considerably less. Most of the jets fly the GPS
vertical profile so they are straight in for 11 miles. I don't think
I've seen a jet fly the VOR which is a circle to land, since the GPS
approaches were authorized.

Besides a jet on a circle to land on 24 at 500 AGL might be noticed by
the neighbors. OTOH I've seen some mighty big twins do that.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

On Tue, 06 Feb 2007 01:10:51 GMT, "Steven P. McNicoll"
wrote:


"Jim" wrote in message
news

Yes. This is particularly wonderful when a pilot announces a
five-mile straight-in final to an uncontrolled field.


How is it wonderful?


I know if I have time enough to land if he's telling the truth:-))
OTOH that's just inside the FAF and it might be me.
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

On Tue, 06 Feb 2007 01:09:56 GMT, "Steven P. McNicoll"
wrote:


"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
roups.com...

As others have told you, it's never been illegal to do a straight-in
approach.

However, PLEASE try to refrain from doing them when the pattern is
full. Not only is it rude, it's often dangerous to attempt when
you've got three on downwind, one on base, and one already on final.
I see this happen all too often -- almost invariably by the charter
guys, who have a paying guy in the back that's late for his meeting --
and it results in frayed nerves and flared tempers.


Simple solution. The straight-in should follow the aircraft on base and the
aircraft on downwind alter their patterns to follow the straight-in.


It's usually not complicated if people are paying attention.
If I can fit between sky divers and jump planes at Zypher Hills I
should be able to adjust to either have enough room to land and clear
the runway ahead of the guy on long final, or extend my down wind to
get behind him.
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

On Mon, 5 Feb 2007 21:59:57 -0600, "Jim Burns"
wrote:

To me the key is nobody bending metal or ending up dead.

Even if the pattern isn't full, maybe there's only one guy on downwind,
that's all it takes for me to take another option of either announcing an
upwind opposite the downwind traffic or a crossover to the downwind, what
ever allows me to keep my eyes on him and other possible traffic as I
transition into the pattern.

There is little that scares me more than some one flying an upwind.
They quite often end up crossing just off the end of the runway right
where I hit pattern altitude on climb out and they do it in my blind
spot. It's even worse when taking off on 06 when the sun is about 20
to 25 degrees above the horizon.

invariably they announce cross wind (if they announce) without saying
where. That can make for a lot of faces looking for traffic that may
or may not be very close. Couple of times over the years I've had one
seemingly pop out of now where close enough to count rivets.
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

On Tue, 06 Feb 2007 04:38:55 GMT, ArtP
wrote:

On Tue, 06 Feb 2007 04:16:49 GMT, Orval Fairbairn
wrote:


It is those "professional pilots in training" that insist on
"stabilized" approaches with 2-mile finals in a C172 dragging at 80
knots who really clog things up.


One of the reasons they are on long finals is they followed
McNicholl's advice to extend downwind to give the guy on a straight in
approach the right of way. Once a crowded pattern extends it won't
pull back in until all of the traffic is cleared. With a few people
doing touch and go's that won't be happening anytime soon.

If the guy ahead of you is turning base two miles ahead and you don't
have any one close in on final just rollinto tha tight , slipping
U-turn to the end of the runway, and you'll be back to the hangar
before the 172 touches down. It all depends on the pilots and what
they are flying. If they know their planes and can be flexible (think
Oshkosh) they can all fit together nicely.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

Jim wrote:

Yes. This is particularly wonderful when a pilot announces a
five-mile straight-in final to an uncontrolled field.

Unless they're a jet, if they are five miles out, they aren't
even yet in the "vicinity" of the airport. You can probably
land three or four planes from the pattern ahead of them.

The only time the plane on final having the ROW is an issue
is when he is close enough to a plane on base to cause a
conflict.

On Tue, 06 Feb 2007 02:13:56 -0500, Roger
wrote:


If the guy ahead of you is turning base two miles ahead and you don't
have any one close in on final just rollinto tha tight , slipping
U-turn to the end of the runway, and you'll be back to the hangar
before the 172 touches down.

If you are 2 miles behind the plane ahead on downwind than you don't
have a crowded pattern and there is probably no need to cut in front.

On Feb 6, 12:13 am, Roger wrote:
If the guy ahead of you is turning base two miles ahead and you don't
have any one close in on final just rollinto tha tight , slipping
U-turn to the end of the runway, and you'll be back to the hangar
before the 172 touches down. It all depends on the pilots and what
they are flying. If they know their planes and can be flexible (think
Oshkosh) they can all fit together nicely.

Roger, you stud jock.Lets all throw standard patterns out the window
and fly like we are at Oshkosh.You have made me realise that I dont
really know my airplane.Thanks.')


Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)www.rogerhalstead.com

On Feb 5, 3:30 pm, "Jay Honeck" wrote:

However, PLEASE try to refrain from doing them when the pattern is
full. Not only is it rude, it's often dangerous to attempt when
you've got three on downwind, one on base, and one already on final.
I see this happen all too often -- almost invariably by the charter
guys, who have a paying guy in the back that's late for his meeting --
and it results in frayed nerves and flared tempers.

Lets all pick on the charter guys ').Sometimes, it is easier (when you
look at the comparitive speeds and altitudes) to just fly a straight
in.Of course, this is not always the case, and people should not be
rude or disrespectful about it.Try this the next time you are out
there, fly your downwind at 1500 AGL and 190kts, then try to figure
out where YOU will fit into the traffic patern.I bet you will find it
is not so easy.Fortunatly most all of the GA guys understand this and
are VERY helpful.IMO the transport guys appreciate it very much.But
then there is those pesky charter guys (Kidding).
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

On Tue, 06 Feb 2007 07:26:01 -0500, Ron Natalie
wrote:

Jim wrote:

Yes. This is particularly wonderful when a pilot announces a
five-mile straight-in final to an uncontrolled field.

Unless they're a jet, if they are five miles out, they aren't
even yet in the "vicinity" of the airport. You can probably
land three or four planes from the pattern ahead of them.

You could at least squeeze in one eve if it were a jet.
I've had approach at KMBS ask me to keep the speed up as "long as
practicable" as there was a DC-9 sneaking up behind.

I've also received an "expedite" as I took the runway as there was a
jet on 5 mile final. It didn't bother me, but it dure made my
passenger nervous. This was another DC-9 at LAN


The only time the plane on final having the ROW is an issue
is when he is close enough to a plane on base to cause a
conflict.

When I anounce at the FAF I'm roughly five miles out and at my
approach speed (120 MPH) that should be 2 1/2 minutes to the runway.
Unless they are really timid pilots they should be able to squeeze in
one or two ahead of me, unless first guy on the runway lands right on
the end and then proceedes to taxi the full length of the runway at a
fast walk. Now that can really stretch out the pattern.:-))

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com