ANOTHER airspace incursion in D.C.?

On 14 Nov 2003 15:23:28 GMT, (Teacherjh)
wrote:

What's broken is the assumption that ATC is staffed...

What's broken is the assumption that this really DOES stop pink elephants.

The assumption that there in fact ARE Pink Elephants (ie. Suicide
Terrorists flying GA aircraft) is what's wrong here. We've never seen
one. They would seem to be highly improbable creatures.

The defense against these raging Pink Elephants of which very little
is known with confidence, not even their supposedly pink color, is
pointless. The notion that by quietly hiding secret post-it notes
around the city, telling everyone, including Pink Elephants, to stay
away is worse. Meanwhile, we're supposed to let Gray Elephants roam
freely, while inspecting their riders's shoes to make sure there is
nothing pink about the shoes.

(In other words, we aren't even certain if the motive is terrorism,
and that by posting a "temporary" ADIZ around DC which we don't bother
charting, these "Pink Elephants" would be deterred. Further, airlines
continue to fly as if nothing happened, although we inspect the
passengers, but not the food service or cleaning crews, for all sorts
of evidence of weaponry)

Have I made you gentle readers cry in pain yet?


Jake Brodsky,
PP ASEL IA, Cessna Cardinal N30946, Based @ FME
Amateur Radio Station AB3A

Jay Honeck wrote:

If you haven't flown through the area, you are not competent to comment on
it.

Why?

Unless you've done it, you really don't have a good idea of what's involved.
You can have and express an opinion, based on what you've heard or read, but
you don't really know what you're talking about. I will listen to the comments
of people like Ron Natalie but ignore yours. You have not paid the price to
make your comments on this matter worth listening to.

Me, I have flown through the area. I avoid the ADIZ completely and avoid most
of the class-B. But you don't see me criticizing other pilots who have other
tactics to deal with the situation.

George Patterson
If you're not part of the solution, you can make a lot of money prolonging
the problem.

Jake Brodsky wrote in message . ..

Sorry folks, that's the way it is. If you don't like it, please
complain to your congress critters. I have. I got a letter from
Senator Mikulski and a staggeringly ignorant form letter from Admiral
Loy. We aren't making enough noise about this issue. Until we do,
this aviation paranoia will get worse, not better.

Jake,

Would you care to share what you found staggeringly ignorant
about Loy's form letter?

Just curious.
Sydney

(Teacherjh) wrote in message ...
if the rules said that pilots had to wiggle their wings three times and
toss a carrot out the window before gaining admittance to the zone, not doing
so would be an "equally" big mistake. For the same inane reason.

You bad! I durn near snorted tea all over my laptop at this.

Imagine the radio transmissions:
"Potomac approach, Cessna 12345 over XXX for Leesburg, with
carrot and wiggling!"

Not preflighting can get you killed due to the laws of physics. Not getting
dressed (at least on a nice day) has no consequences other than the arbitrary
and artificial ones society imposes.

Sunburn, chiggers, and mosquito bites

Sydney

Me, I have flown through the area. I avoid the ADIZ completely and avoid
most
of the class-B. But you don't see me criticizing other pilots who have
other
tactics to deal with the situation.

You consider busting the ADIZ over 600 times a "tactic" for dealing with the
situation?

You seem to be interpreting my posts as a slam against those pilots (like
Ron) who are successfully dealing with the situation.

Nothing could be further from the truth.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"G.R. Patterson III" wrote:

Jay Honeck wrote:

But 600? That's ineptitude on a grand scale, and embarrassing.

If you haven't flown through the area, you are not competent to comment on it.

That's great logical reasoning. Let's see: "If you haven't flown on the Concorde,
you are not competent to comment on it.....If you haven't been in the crash, you
are not competent to comment on it.....If you haven't been to Venus, you are not
competent to comment on it."
Yup, that sure makes sense.

Jay Honeck wrote:

You seem to be interpreting my posts as a slam against those pilots (like
Ron) who are successfully dealing with the situation.

No, I'm simply saying that if 600 experienced pilots have busted this airspace
in the relatively short time it has existed, avoiding a bust *must* be a lot
harder than you seem to think it is. Until you try it for yourself, you don't
know what you're talking about, and you're in no position to be pointing fingers
at other pilots and saying "they deserve to have their certificate pulled."

George Patterson
If you're not part of the solution, you can make a lot of money prolonging
the problem.

Rachel Carlson wrote:

That's great logical reasoning. Let's see: "If you haven't flown on the Concorde,
you are not competent to comment on it.....If you haven't been in the crash, you
are not competent to comment on it.....If you haven't been to Venus, you are not
competent to comment on it."
Yup, that sure makes sense.

All true statements. Glad you agree.

George Patterson
If you're not part of the solution, you can make a lot of money prolonging
the problem.

Jay Honeck wrote:
You consider busting the ADIZ over 600 times a "tactic" for dealing with the
situation?
You seem to be interpreting my posts as a slam against those pilots (like
Ron) who are successfully dealing with the situation.
Nothing could be further from the truth.

The problem is, a LOT of the supposed busts were actually ATC or NORAD
mistakes. As far as I can tell, you can do everything perfectly, and you
still have a decent chance of being chased down by the Customs Blackhawk.

I suspect another reasonable percentage of the busts are very slight clips
of the UNCHARTED edges of the ADIZ. Pilots have been chased down for just
getting too close to the boundary, but not actually busting it.

-- Jay


__!__
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In article , "G.R. Patterson III"
wrote:

That's great logical reasoning. Let's see: "If you haven't flown on
the Concorde,
you are not competent to comment on it.....If you haven't been in the
crash, you
are not competent to comment on it.....If you haven't been to Venus,
you are not
competent to comment on it."
Yup, that sure makes sense.

All true statements. Glad you agree.

utter nonsense

--
Bob Noel