Frustrated Student Pilot About to Quit

In article k1aQb.129498$I06.1119980@attbi_s01, Jay Honeck wrote:
Until this bottom-dollar mentality goes away (which it won't) GA will be
financially distressed.

I agree with much of what you have said, but I think you may be over-stating
this aspect a bit.

EVERY businessman is "bottom-line oriented" -- or he won't be around long.
And every consumer should be looking for the best deal. That's what makes
our economy work.

But not to the detrement of quality. There is a tradeoff (bottom dollar
vs quality) so you can't be purely bottom dollar oriented. GA is, in the
general case, purely bottom dollar oriented - trading off too much
quality to get 'cheap' (which isn't even attainable in GA due to the
high base prices to start off with).

I don't know the history of the US automotive industry well enough, but
the British motor industry was decimated by being cheap over quality
(and making many false economies in the process). The customers voted
with their feet. That's why there is only one British car manufacturer
left, but many Japanese and German manufacturers.

I did read the case over Continental Airlines. They tried to cut
expenses and concentrate too much on the bottom line, and it almost
caused them to go bankrupt instead of saving the business. Once they had
new management who realised that you need to have some quality too they
recovered, despite their higher expenses (and fares).

Since the motor industry is well studied, it was quite easy to see the
quantity of people voting with their feet and deciding to buy German
cars and Japanese cars instead of British ones. But how many people are
voting with their feet against GA, and taking up sailing instead?

Since you run a hotel instead of a GA business, I'm sure you've already
made the assessment that you can better pay for your GA habit by running
a hotel instead of an FBO :-)

--
Dylan Smith, Castletown, Isle of Man
Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net
Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net
"Maintain thine airspeed, lest the ground come up and smite thee"

As a CFI myself I consider #1 to be unacceptable. He is demonstrating
that your time is not important to him. I would hardly say he is the
norm. There are many of us that treat this as a profession (even
though we have "real" jobs too). As a profession you must be
professional.


(Litwin) wrote in message . com...
I am a student pilot with 18 hours of flight time, and have been told
that I am very close to soloing. However, I have reached the point
that I am about to give it up, and not because, I cannot fly the
pattern, do landings, steep turns, etc., or even costs or medical.
This is why:

1. I have a competent, patient, and otherwise very good CFI. However,
he can never be on time, and as a busy professional, and despite many
discussions, I cannot live with this. Not 10 or 20 min late, but 1 to
2 hours late, and frequent. He is the only CFI at this airport.
Unfortunately, the next closest airport with flight instruction is 65
miles from here, so my choices are non-existent, unless I want to
spend many hours on the road. Besides, untimely and tardy CFIs are a
common disease in GA so I hear.

2. GA seems economically distressed. The aviation company that
employs him has junk equipment, 2 days in a row now two different
planes would not start. And never mind the lack of money to plow snow
or remove compacted ice on the runway. I just don't want to spend my
money in what looks to me to be a distressed industry that may not
even have a bottom line in some sectors.

3. Living in the Great Lakes area, just how practical is all of this,
with 5 to 6 months of crappy weather being typical. It is perpetual
IFR, lots of icing, and when the plane will start, crosswind 2x or
more the POH limitations, and headwinds that leave driving a car
faster. Even scheduling 2 to 3 times a week, maybe only 50% of my
lessons could go forward, and even those sometimes were marginal
conditions. I am disappointed that this is not more practical.

I learned many things, made better progress than I had envisioned, and
really enjoyed the few timely, good days that were available, and
really enjoyed the reading and learning. I had wanted to get my
private pilot certif. For business and pleasure purposes. The best of
luck to those of you who have better circumstances, I am really sorry
to have to give it up.

Since you run a hotel instead of a GA business, I'm sure you've already
made the assessment that you can better pay for your GA habit by running
a hotel instead of an FBO :-)

Well, neither one is going to anyone rich... ;-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:0BXQb.145933$I06.1466967@attbi_s01...
Since you run a hotel instead of a GA business, I'm sure you've already
made the assessment that you can better pay for your GA habit by running
a hotel instead of an FBO :-)

Well, neither one is going to anyone rich... ;-)

I notice Bill Marriott picked hotels rather than the FBO route.

I notice Bill Marriott picked hotels rather than the FBO route.

Yep, the real money is in franchising.

That's not what we're about, however. (Although we have talked about
opening another aviation-theme hotel in Florida, and running that one in the
winters, once the kids are grown...)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

In article 3d8Rb.156890$na.264685@attbi_s04, Jay Honeck
wrote:

I notice Bill Marriott picked hotels rather than the FBO route.

Yep, the real money is in franchising.

That's not what we're about, however. (Although we have talked about
opening another aviation-theme hotel in Florida, and running that one in the
winters, once the kids are grown...)

Someplace like Lakeland, maybe?
Jay has this "fly-for-free" thing figured out.
Expand the business, or even the research for expanding the business,
and all his flying is tax deductable.

Someplace like Lakeland, maybe?

That would be about right! ;-)

Jay has this "fly-for-free" thing figured out.
Expand the business, or even the research for expanding the business,
and all his flying is tax deductable.

Every flight ends at an FBO -- and FBOs are critical in our marketing plan.
What better way to spread the word to pilots than through their trusted FBO?

And since the owners must be met with repeatedly, given promotional material
for display, schmoozed, etc., flying to FBOs is a very real part of our
business.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

I understand your frustration. When I started I got discouraged by
everyone including family and friends, and even the first CFI put a
wet blanket on the whole idea. I stopped for a few months, but I
started again, at a different FBO. Now I am a CFII, I teach aviation
at a community college and fly regularly. You have to want to do
something badly that you will not let anything get in the way. Since
there are no other FBO's in your area, you could consider taking a few
weeks off to go somewhere sunny and get your certificate.
Alternatively, do the hour long drive to the next airport until you
solo, then buy an airplane and fly yourself there for each lesson.
There are ways around every obstacle.



(Litwin) wrote in message . com...
Cecil-

I wish I were young at 40. And yes, I enjoy flying and want to fly.
And no there isnt more to the story, but one of the posts about poor
maintenance is too eerily familiar. It is something called way too
many obstacles (and not the 50' ones). But I also have a life to
lead, and not spending endless hours on the road, you have to draw a
reasonable line and balance somewhere.. I cant change the behavior of
an otherwise decent CFI who has serious punctuality problems, in a
situation of near monopoly, and a pathetic FBO that is the only game
in town. People like myself, despite having the money, the interest,
and desire are not a big priority in GA, and I have reconciled to that
in my decision. (E.g. only one AOPA "mentor" for my entire state). The
weather kind of tipped the scale for me. Watching those poor slobs
trying to handprop that junky tomahawk out in the snow today just
reinforced things for me. I really feel like i am missing out, but
the ecomomic health of GA really says a lot to people like me.



"Cecil E. Chapman" wrote in message .com...
The next closest ga instruction is 90
miles. College and post grad were closer, and yes I want to fly, but
what preposterous conditions, its just not a reasonable sacrifice for
me. I guess it is different in the big city.

? I drive 60 miles to my flight training and like the school so much I
would easily drive another 30 miles to get there.

Sounds like you already bought in to the 'oh I give up', mindset already, so
I might be more than a little too late... but here it goes.

At my first flight school (which I fondly refer to as the Nightmare On
Skyway) I went through four or five instructors (they kept leaving for
better FBOs) while trying to work for my PPL and don't even get me started
on the 'interesting' flight time & flight accounting methods that were used
there. Anyway, at some point I said enough was enough and found a
flightschool that was a little over an hour away from my home. Finished my
PPL there, rent from the FBO, and am now finishing up my Instrument rating
there (to be followed by more ratings immediately thereafter).

I did this and persevered because I wanted to fly,,,, nothing was going to
prevent me from becoming a private pilot. NOTHING.

Geez, man,,,,, ya got to WANT to fly! Just conjecture here, but are you
sure that there wasn't something that spooked you along the way and that
blaming that sad excuse for an FBO for your wanting to quit isn't a cover
for something else? Did you REALLY REALLY LOVE IT (flying)? Or was it just
a bit better than renting a good video, for ya?

I'll bet you're young, so I'll share a 'life secret' you probably haven't
really took to heart, yet - Life will throw obstacles in your path, which
you either succumb to (playing the victim) or actively choose to rise above.
You will learn, eventually that the real measure of a man (or woman) is not
what happens to them but how they handle those things that stand in their
life-path. Experience is not what happens to us, but what we THINK about
what happens to us.

[Cecil,,, hops off the tree stump]

Good luck!

--
--
=-----
Good Flights!

Cecil
PP-ASEL

Check out my personal flying adventures complete with pictures and text at:
www.bayareapilot.com

"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery -

"We who fly, do so for the love of flying. We are alive in the air with
this miracle that lies in our hands and beneath our feet"
- Cecil Day Lewis -
I am giving my flight bag with the books, videos, kneeboard and
headset to my nephew down south, if he wants them, perhaps he will
have more enjoyable circumstances than i encountered when he is old
enough to fly.

I learned a lot and progressed better than I imagined, and enjoyed the
very few good days. I never thought I could learn to control and land
an airplane unassisted, but I did. The fact that i could at least do
that is pretty cool.

I drove out after my "resignation" in a developing whiteout, knowing
that the coming 3 or 4 days of low IFR left me confident that learning
to fly is not practical in these parts, as the headlights of my former
CFI were turning into the airport, 45 minutes late

Alternatively, do the hour long drive to the next airport...

When I started flying as a student pilot, it took literally all afternoon to
ride the buses (3 different city busses - one of which ran only every hour) to
the airport and 3 busses back (no car as a college student) to get an hour of
flight instruction.

If you want to fly bad enough, you do what you have to.

Soapbox mode OFF.