Forgot to close flight plan

It happens by arriving at your destination. If you didn't arrive at your
destination a search would be initiated. Because you did arrive nothing
needs to be done.


By arriving... by when? I ask because until you have arrived, you haven't
arrived. Action is triggered by action, not by inaction. So, if inaction (not
arriving) is the cause, then the proximate cause must be something like a timer
going off.

It is this detail I'm looking for.

Jose

--
(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)

"Teacherjh" wrote in message
...

It happens by arriving at your destination. If you didn't arrive at your
destination a search would be initiated. Because you did arrive nothing
needs to be done.


By arriving... by when?


By the time forwarded to the tower.



I ask because until you have arrived, you haven't arrived.


That's deep.



Action is triggered by action, not by inaction.


Not in this case.



So, if inaction (not arriving) is the cause, then the proximate cause
must be something like a timer going off.


Why?



It is this detail I'm looking for.


There is no more detail.

By arriving... by when?

By the time forwarded to the tower.

So, if inaction (not arriving) is the cause, then the proximate cause
must be something like a timer going off.

Why?


To give meaning to the part that says "by the time forwarded to the tower".

The tower is sent an "expect arrival at 5:34". At 5:36 the plane arrives.
What is different about the two minutes after 5:34 compared to the two minutes
before 5:34? Just that at 5:34, 5:34 happened, and that is special because it
is an expected arrival time that was not consummated.

So, at least in somebody's mind, an alarm went off at 5:34. No? Otherwise
there is nothing special about the two minutes afterwards, and no search would
be initiated.

That is, unless what you mean is that a search begins any time a handoff fails
under IFR. This is another reasonable interpretation, when "handoff" is
expanded to include "expected position report". But then, each ETA (EPRT)
would function as the "alarm" I am talking about... getting reset every time.

Is this pretty much the way it happens?

Jose

--
(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)

Teacherjh wrote:


The tower is sent an "expect arrival at 5:34".

It will be printed on a flight progress strip.


At 5:36 the plane arrives.
What is different about the two minutes after 5:34 compared to the two minutes
before 5:34?

None. Make it 20 minutes, still no difference.


Just that at 5:34, 5:34 happened, and that is special because it
is an expected arrival time that was not consummated.

But if you landed at 5:36, where were you at 5:34? Say about 3 miles
out? Think the tower might know that? Think the approach controller
might know that?



So, at least in somebody's mind, an alarm went off at 5:34. No?

No, no alarm went off because we knew exactly where you were.


Otherwise
there is nothing special about the two minutes afterwards, and no search would
be initiated.

Right.

That is, unless what you mean is that a search begins any time a handoff fails
under IFR.

Handoffs fail for any number of reasons. Like your cheap ass
transponder isn't sending a signal right now so I can't take the handoff
from the center because my computer won't take handoffs like that.
Modem failure. Other telephone line failure. You're too low for my
radar coverage. If the you are still in radio contact with ATC then we
don't need to go look for you. If all the electrics fail we'll do a
manual handoff. And when you land we will do exactly nothing, except
file the strip. Because nothing needs to be done. You're here and ATC
knows that.


This is another reasonable interpretation, when "handoff" is
expanded to include "expected position report".

That's not a handoff.


But then, each ETA (EPRT)
would function as the "alarm" I am talking about... getting reset every time.

If center has no radar with you they will ask for position reports.
When you fail to report he will call you on the radio. If you don't
answer he will start a search.

"Teacherjh" wrote in message
...
So, at least in somebody's mind, an alarm went off at 5:34. No?
Otherwise
there is nothing special about the two minutes afterwards, and no search
would
be initiated.

AFAIK, the search & rescue aspect is the same for IFR and VFR. ATC has
nothing to do with it, except that when an IFR flight arrives at a towered
airport, the controller contacts the FSS (who is the entity waiting for the
"timer to go off") to close the IFR flight plan on the pilot's behalf.

That is, unless what you mean is that a search begins any time a handoff
fails
under IFR.

AFAIK, a failed handoff doesn't *automatically* start a search. ATC may in
fact prompt a search to begin if the loss of communications is accompanied
by some other evidence that there was an accident. Otherwise, normal lost
comm procedures would prevail, which basically just mean ATC clears the
route filed and/or cleared. Thirty minutes after the filed arrival time, if
the aircraft hasn't shown up and the FSS hasn't been told to close the
flight plan, *then* search & rescue would begin.

Pete

"Peter Duniho" wrote in message
...

AFAIK, the search & rescue aspect is the same for IFR and VFR.
ATC has nothing to do with it, except that when an IFR flight arrives
at a towered airport, the controller contacts the FSS (who is the
entity waiting for the "timer to go off") to close the IFR flight plan
on the pilot's behalf.


That's not correct. When an IFR flight arrives at a towered airport, the
controller contacts nobody, for there's nobody to contact. FSS is not an
entity waiting for any "timer to go off" to close an IFR flight plan. When
an IFR flight arrives at a nontowered airport, the pilot either contacts ATC
directly or has FSS contact ATC for him. FSS just relays the message, they
do not close the flight plan.

"Teacherjh" wrote in message
...

To give meaning to the part that says "by the time forwarded to
the tower".


Explain.



The tower is sent an "expect arrival at 5:34". At 5:36 the plane arrives.
What is different about the two minutes after 5:34 compared to the two
minutes before 5:34? Just that at 5:34, 5:34 happened, and that is
special because it is an expected arrival time that was not
consummated.

So, at least in somebody's mind, an alarm went off at 5:34. No?


No. An airplane that had been estimated to land at 5:34, but didn't
actually land until 5:36, would be on tower frequency by 5:34, so the tower
would know where it is.

If the forwarded estimate was off by more than three minutes the facility
providing IFR services would revise the estimate.




That is, unless what you mean is that a search begins any time a
handoff fails under IFR. This is another reasonable interpretation,
when "handoff" is expanded to include "expected position report".


I mean what I wrote, a handoff is a radar function and has nothing to do
with it.



But then, each ETA (EPRT) would function as the "alarm" I am
talking about... getting reset every time.

Is this pretty much the way it happens?


Estimates are revised regularly. Sometimes they just take the form of a
time change at a specific fix, sometimes a new strip is generated.

To give meaning to the part that says "by the time forwarded to
the tower".


Explain.

Rather than explain, let me ask how a search is begun for an aircraft that does
not land when it is expected to. Say you hand off to the tower, and the
aircraft does not contact the tower. The plane is below radar. A few minutes
go by, then a few more, and still no contact. Perhaps the airplane has been
abudcted by aliens, or has crashed in the forest, or has had an electrical
failure, or the nut behind the yoke came off. So, what happens? When?
Triggered by what? Why?

Same question, nontowered.

Jose

--
(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)

"Teacherjh" wrote in message
...
Rather than explain, let me ask how a search is begun for an aircraft that
does
not land when it is expected to.

IMHO, it was obvious that was your question from the get-go.

You should find a controller who is more interested in actually answering
your question than in telling you that you're wrong (whatever it happens you
said). Steve is not that controller. You should know that by now.

Pete

"Teacherjh" wrote in message
...

Rather than explain, let me ask how a search is begun for an
aircraft that does not land when it is expected to. Say you
hand off to the tower, and the aircraft does not contact the
tower. The plane is below radar.


There are no handoffs without radar.



A few minutes go by, then a few more, and still no contact.
Perhaps the airplane has been abudcted by aliens, or has crashed
in the forest, or has had an electrical failure, or the nut behind the
yoke came off. So, what happens?


The tower calls the facility providing IFR services.



When?


A few minutes after the time that was passed to the tower.



Triggered by what?


Non-contact with the aircraft.



Why?


Because there should have been contact by that time.



Same question, nontowered.


Usually the first step is to call the FBO.