Almost saw someone crash

Viperdoc wrote:

I'd be interested in hearing how the group would have reacted to this
situation.

Well, I would have made a comment to the effect that I would not be flying VFR in
this weather. Since I'm not instrument rated, I would probably be able to add
"personally, I'm stuck here sitting this out" (or words to that effect) if I were
there.

George Patterson
I childproofed my house, but they *still* get in.

As a matter of fact, I did make a comment about flying VFR under such
terrible conditions, and her response was: filing IFR wouldn't have made a
difference. In essence this is true, since the first error was not having a
briefing, the second was continuing her flight into IMC, while the third
was failing to turn around immediately.

As an aside, during the conversation with the people in the FBO, she said
she was a foot and ankle surgeon in the orthopedic department at a
prestigious medical school. However, she was unaware that I am on the
faculty at a neighboring medical school, and know most of the members of the
department where she claimed she practiced. When I named some names, she
immediately changed the subject, and didn't appear to know even the most
prominent members of the department. I never called her on this, but simply
walked away- she was someone that I simply did not want to associate with in
any way.

While I generally have better things to do, I looked up the faculty on the
net, and as it turned out she was not an orthopedic surgeon as I suspected,
but in fact was a podiatrist at a suburban hospital that is loosely
affiliated with the medical school where she claimed to practice- hardly
what she claimed.

Prior to this several pilots, instructors, and experienced mechanics tried
to bring up how dangerous her actions were, and how lucky she was that she
didn't get hurt seriously or killed. She simply didn't get the message, and
dismissed all of these comments. All of us have probably been guilty of some
macho bravado at times, but this was the worst case of this that I had ever
seen. It was either total bluster, or an example of being completely
clueless.

Regardless, this attitude, along with getting caught grossly exaggerating
her job, gave me a lot of bad vibes. Several of us walked away rather than
hang around listening to her conversation and encouraging her behavior.

Hopefully she will hook up with someone who can give her some advice that
she will follow and potentially save her life.

"Viperdoc" wrote in message
...
[...]
Hopefully she will hook up with someone who can give her some advice that
she will follow and potentially save her life.

She doesn't sound like the kind of person aviation needs or should protect.
Why not just report her flying to your local FSDO?

This is exactly the sort of "bad apple" person that gives the rest of us a
bad name. She's not doing any of us any favors with her attitude, and I
don't see why anyone would do her any favors by not turning her in.

Pete

"Peter Duniho" wrote in message
Why not just report her flying to your local FSDO?
This is exactly the sort of "bad apple" person that gives the rest of us a
bad name. She's not doing any of us any favors with her attitude, and I
don't see why anyone would do her any favors by not turning her in.

It's not neccessarily about doing her a favor. If someone called the FAA
safety hotline, what would happen? Do you think there is enough of a case
for a successful prosecution? I doubt it. All that would likely happen is
that her attitude would become more cavalier because she beat the Feds at
their game.

D.

"Capt.Doug" wrote in message
...
It's not neccessarily about doing her a favor. If someone called the FAA
safety hotline, what would happen? Do you think there is enough of a case
for a successful prosecution? I doubt it. All that would likely happen is
that her attitude would become more cavalier because she beat the Feds at
their game.

That's baloney. First of all, from the description given, there were plenty
of witnesses to make a case, plus there's going to be a record of the damage
to the plane. Secondly, so what if this particular case isn't the one that
gets her? Unless people are willing to report irresponsible piloting like
that, the FSDO never has a chance to even start building a case.

As for her attitude becoming "more cavalier", I can't imagine how it could
be any more cavalier than it already is. Just how much worse could she
possibly get? She's already nearly killed herself, running the plane into
something in flight. Any more cavalier, and she won't be a problem because
she WILL be dead.

Pete

Viperdoc wrote:

As a matter of fact, I did make a comment about flying VFR under such
terrible conditions, and her response was: filing IFR wouldn't have made a
difference.

While I agree with Peter's suggestion to get the FAA involved, I expect I would have
behaved much the same way that you did. You do what you can.

George Patterson
I childproofed my house, but they *still* get in.

"G.R. Patterson III" wrote in message ...
Viperdoc wrote:

As a matter of fact, I did make a comment about flying VFR under such
terrible conditions, and her response was: filing IFR wouldn't have made a
difference.

While I agree with Peter's suggestion to get the FAA involved, I expect I would have
behaved much the same way that you did. You do what you can.

George Patterson
I childproofed my house, but they *still* get in.

Lol! Well, sometimes being under a squall line is better than filing
IFR and getting a high altitude, penatrating cells with large vertical
development, and picking up ice. (I bet her Naner doesn't have radar
or stormscope.) None of us were there in the cockpit with this lady,
Doc, so I'm reluctant to encourge this witchhunt by what appear to be
comments by low-time private pilots on this NG. I went through this
phase of scudrunning many years ago, and fortunately survived. The
rationalization that: "I've got plenty of fuel, so I can always ask
for a pop up clearance if it gets too bad" sounds like a common 500-hr
pilot attitude that seems reasonable until something bad happens like
you hit a tree branch or spot some rocks in the clouds or realize, as
in my case, that I flew under new high voltage lines that were
obscured in the fog (about a month later a 182 on the same river hit
them breaking the neck of the pilot and seriously injuring his
passenger.) That was my wake up call. I realized those wires were
meant for me.

I don't know Viperdoc, you were the one who spoke with this lady... My
guess is her close call hasn't sunk in yet. Any chance you could get
an instructor at her field to go talk to her? Or if that's too much
trouble, contact her directly since you both work in the same
profession. Suspect she might listen to a senior M.D.like you.
Getting the FAA involved should be the last step.

Regards,

pacplyer

If you know her name, perhaps you could look her up on the FAA pilot
registry and find her address. Send an anonymous letter sharing your
feelings and let your conscience rest. Thank God she's not an
instructor...I hope.


"Viperdoc" wrote in message
...
As a matter of fact, I did make a comment about flying VFR under such
terrible conditions, and her response was: filing IFR wouldn't have made a
difference. In essence this is true, since the first error was not having
a
briefing, the second was continuing her flight into IMC, while the third
was failing to turn around immediately.

As an aside, during the conversation with the people in the FBO, she said
she was a foot and ankle surgeon in the orthopedic department at a
prestigious medical school. However, she was unaware that I am on the
faculty at a neighboring medical school, and know most of the members of
the
department where she claimed she practiced. When I named some names, she
immediately changed the subject, and didn't appear to know even the most
prominent members of the department. I never called her on this, but
simply
walked away- she was someone that I simply did not want to associate with
in
any way.

While I generally have better things to do, I looked up the faculty on the
net, and as it turned out she was not an orthopedic surgeon as I
suspected,
but in fact was a podiatrist at a suburban hospital that is loosely
affiliated with the medical school where she claimed to practice- hardly
what she claimed.

Prior to this several pilots, instructors, and experienced mechanics tried
to bring up how dangerous her actions were, and how lucky she was that she
didn't get hurt seriously or killed. She simply didn't get the message,
and
dismissed all of these comments. All of us have probably been guilty of
some
macho bravado at times, but this was the worst case of this that I had
ever
seen. It was either total bluster, or an example of being completely
clueless.

Regardless, this attitude, along with getting caught grossly exaggerating
her job, gave me a lot of bad vibes. Several of us walked away rather than
hang around listening to her conversation and encouraging her behavior.

Hopefully she will hook up with someone who can give her some advice that
she will follow and potentially save her life.

"G.R. Patterson III" wrote:

.. Since I'm not instrument rated, I would probably be able

In this weather?
No way man!

(see what I mean above...?) hehe.

Frode

"Viperdoc" wrote in message ...
Yesterday the weather was miserable. There were low ceilings and a line of
strong thunderstorms that ran diagonally across the state. The preflight
briefing and a look at the radar indicated that an early departure would get
me to the destination ahead of the storms. I took my Baron (radar and
stormscope equipped) to a nearby airport for some maintenance, and needed to
get a clearance enroute due to low ceilings. There was lightning to the west
and both the radar and stormscope showed a lot of activity. I landed just as
the rain started.

As we worked on the plane the rain became a downpour, and the sky was very
dark with low clouds and ceilings. The wind was howling, and there was a lof
of thunder and lightning. The hangar was shaking from the winds, and the
lights went out for a few minutes from a lightning strike.

After about fifteen minutes of this, we all heard a plane do a low approach
over the airport, and we ran to the window to take a look. At this point it
was clearly lower than the published minimums for the lowest approach, and
we were all concerned about a pilot flying around in such terrible weather.
We got a glimpse of a Bonanza, which then disappeared. I tuned 121.5 on my
radios as well as the CTAF, and heard the FBO call the pilot and ask if they
needed assistance. There were no calls or answers from the Bonanza, and we
feared the worst, waiting for an ELT signal. However, after a few minutes
the plane noises returned and the Bonanza landed and taxied to the FBO.

We later met the pilot during a coffee break, who said she was going from a
nearby metropolitan area to some property diagonally across the state (a
route that clearly put her in the path of the long line of thunderstorms.)
She said the weather was so bad that she couldn't even dial the GPS map to
find the nearest airport, and her plan was to put the plane down in a field
when she came across the airport! I asked myself why anyone would want to
scud run ( it was lower than localizer approach minimums) across an entire
state and try to fly through a line of thunderstorms enroute. Why not turn
around and head east away from the storms when the weather went bad (she
said she had hours worth of gas)?

If this had happened to most people they would likely have been pretty
scared and humbled by the experience, but she was very happy and chatty with
the folks at the FBO, as if flying through thunderstorms, scud running,
flying in IMC without a clearance, and contemplating a precautionary landing
in a field were routine events. She did not seem at all concerned with how
close she had come to a serious event, and in fact was very upbeat and
carried on a number of light conversations.

I departed IFR back to my local airport, and had to shoot an approach to ILS
minimums due to some residual low clouds, and I later learned that as she
prepared to depart she noticed that a wingtip and leading edge were damaged.
Apparently she had struck a tree during her scud running, but had not
noticed!

Obviously, this episode showed a lot of poor judgment, like lack of
preflight planning, as well as poor decision making in continuing on in IMC
conditions through thunderstorms rather than turning around. (she was VFR).

Amway, she clearly understood the possible implications of her actions, but
was either obvlious or did not care how close she came to getting killed
yesterday. As a fellow pilot, I was struck by how cavalier an attitude she
had toward flying, and how close she had come to crashing.

Would anyone have said anything further to her? She already had stated she
knew about the weather but had decided to continue VFR, so what else could
we do to help her without sounding critical? She clearly wasn't shaken or
asking for any help or advice, so what more could be done?

It was a very frustrating situation- she had nearly killed herself,
apparently knew why it had happened, and seemed to think this was a normal
activity of flying (let alone damaging her 1997 Bonanza A-36)

I'd be interested in hearing how the group would have reacted to this
situation.

In this case gravity will win sooner then later. Did ya get an N
number off the Bonanza???