Verifying flap retraction

On Wed, 18 Aug 2004 08:07:16 -0400, Cub Driver
wrote:

On Wed, 18 Aug 2004 01:00:01 GMT, Roger Halstead
wrote:

The old Hershey Bar winged Cherokee 180s also used the Johnson bar.
It was the only plane where I could raise the flaps and actually
shorten the landing roll. The electric ones are just too slow.

I took Damien Del -- well, I took the Andover NJ "bush flying" course
last year. He taught this technique in the Aviat Husky. (Also flying
in ground effect over the corn stubble short of the threshold, then
dumping the flaps just as you reach the grass. Voila! 250-foot
landing!)

Couple years ago I took part in a spot landing contest. It was pretty
much a no rules type rather than you and only reduce throttle and add
flaps type of thing.

I thought I was doing pretty good touching down on the mains with
something like 21 or 22 inches to go. The a couple pilots flying a 172
both made 11 inches. Then the FBO, Terry Blodgett got out his old
V-35. He set the mains on the tape and cut it in two.

At any rate, where I was headed was Cherokees, Johnson bars, and short
fields. There was a Cherokee that came in with all seats full. I
think it was a Cherokee 6, but it's been a while. At any rate (think I
already said that), he was dragging it in and then dumped the flaps.
Thing is, he was a tad higher than he though. It sounded like someone
dropped a trash can on the runway. A big trash can:-)) All that and
he didn't come close to the 4 closest landings.

Those Cherokees are rugged! I've seen proofsnicker

I had a bleeding knuckle after a couple hours of this.

Just one?

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)

The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
Expedition sailboat charters www.expeditionsail.com

Roy Smith wrote:

Now I fly mostly Pipers. I really like the manual flaps instead of
Cessna's electric ones, and curse the electric trim Piper uses instead
of Cessna's manual trim system.

Maule gives you manual systems for both!

George Patterson
If you want to know God's opinion of money, just look at the people
he gives it to.

My Flap position indicator indicates up or 40 degrees with a mediocre
degree of accuracy. Anything else is on its whim.
So check the flaps? You bet - every single time.

As to Rogers suggestion to slip into short fields, it's a good one.
Anything that makes us practice and perfect basic manouvers can only be
good.

Tony
--

Tony Roberts
PP-ASEL
VFR OTT
Night
Cessna 172H C-GICE



In article ,
"Roger Long" wrote:

One of the more experienced pilots in our club scared himself climbing out
of a touch and go during which he didn't notice that the flaps had frozen at
20 degrees on our 172.

I've been investigating the flap system on Cessna's and am impressed how
easily a bit of fluff or corrosion in just one switch can let the flaps go
down but then fail to retract.

This leaves me convinced that CFI's and all of us should be drilling in the
glance over the shoulder to verify retraction on all touch and goes and go
arounds. Practicing climb outs from minimum airspeed with all flap settings
is a very neglected part of airwork and probably as important to safety as
doing stalls.

On Wed, 18 Aug 2004 17:21:19 GMT, "G.R. Patterson III"
wrote:

If you want to know God's opinion of money, just look at the people
he gives it to.

This has stuck in my mind..... hehe.

"Roy Smith" wrote in message
...
Now I fly mostly Pipers. I really like the manual flaps instead of
Cessna's electric ones, and curse the electric trim Piper uses instead
of Cessna's manual trim system.

Is there not a manual trim wheel then?

Paul

In article ,
"Paul Sengupta" wrote:

"Roy Smith" wrote in message
...
Now I fly mostly Pipers. I really like the manual flaps instead of
Cessna's electric ones, and curse the electric trim Piper uses instead
of Cessna's manual trim system.

Is there not a manual trim wheel then?

Paul

There is, but it's not in a very convenient place (stuffed between the
front seats). The Piper electric trim is very convenient when it works,
the problem is that it so often doesn't work :-(

I've never flown a Piper with electric trim, but I find the manual trim
wheel between the seats very convenient. You don't have to lean forward to
work it like the manual trim in a Skyhawk (the only Cessna I've flown), and
it falls easily to hand without looking. The only problem I've had was when
I weighed 60 lb more and I had a similar-sized passenger in the right seat.
Then I found that it was a bit of a squeeze (that might have been
misunderstood) getting to it between our hips :-).

--
Bob (Chief Pilot, White Knuckle Airways)

I don't have to like Bush and Cheney (Or Kerry, for that matter) to love
America

"Roy Smith" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Paul Sengupta" wrote:

"Roy Smith" wrote in message
...
Now I fly mostly Pipers. I really like the manual flaps instead of
Cessna's electric ones, and curse the electric trim Piper uses instead
of Cessna's manual trim system.

Is there not a manual trim wheel then?

Paul

There is, but it's not in a very convenient place (stuffed between the
front seats). The Piper electric trim is very convenient when it works,
the problem is that it so often doesn't work :-(

On Thu, 19 Aug 2004 15:00:08 +0100, "Paul Sengupta"
wrote:

"Roy Smith" wrote in message
...
Now I fly mostly Pipers. I really like the manual flaps instead of
Cessna's electric ones, and curse the electric trim Piper uses instead

That electric trim is one of the greatest things since sliced bread.

of Cessna's manual trim system.

Is there not a manual trim wheel then?

Yup

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

Paul

In article , Bob Chilcoat
wrote:

I've never flown a Piper with electric trim, but I find the manual trim
wheel between the seats very convenient. You don't have to lean forward to
work it like the manual trim in a Skyhawk (the only Cessna I've flown), and
it falls easily to hand without looking. The only problem I've had was when
I weighed 60 lb more and I had a similar-sized passenger in the right seat.
Then I found that it was a bit of a squeeze (that might have been
misunderstood) getting to it between our hips :-).


To quote my wife:

"You do tell your other passengers what you're doing wehen you reach
down there, right??!!"

On Thu, 19 Aug 2004 10:42:17 -0400, Roy Smith wrote:

In article ,
"Paul Sengupta" wrote:

"Roy Smith" wrote in message
...
Now I fly mostly Pipers. I really like the manual flaps instead of
Cessna's electric ones, and curse the electric trim Piper uses instead
of Cessna's manual trim system.

Is there not a manual trim wheel then?

Paul

There is, but it's not in a very convenient place (stuffed between the
front seats). The Piper electric trim is very convenient when it works,
the problem is that it so often doesn't work :-(

I was a partner in a Cherokee 180 (N6360J). It had electric trim which
never failed in the 375 hours I put on it. I've never heard of the
current partners complain. The trim wheel is between the seats in a
natural position to just put your hand on it. For all 5 of us and the
partners since, it has worked just fine. I think they've worn out two
engines in that plane, but the trim has not been a problem.

BTW I'd love to have an electric trim in the Deb that worked like the
one in old sixty Juliet.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com