Aviation Videos, again...

At the risk of reopening not-so old wounds, I'd like your opinion of this
page of aviation videos:

http://alexisparkinn.com/aviation_videos.htm

After our earlier heated discourse over the propriety and preferred methods
of showing aviation crash videos, I hesitate to even bring this up -- but
I'm hoping that we, as pilots and aviation enthusiasts, can come to some
sort of consensus on this touchy subject.

I've reworded and reworked the page, adding here and cutting there, in hopes
of providing a more diplomatic and tasteful presentation of what can
obviously be a delicate topic.

Opinions? Suggestions?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Jay,

On your page, you say: "Our desire is that viewing the crash videos should
be an educational experience, with the goal of preventing similar accidents
in the future." As a CFI, please tell me how I can learn from, and pass on
lessons to my students regarding each of the videos on your website.
Otherwise, I tend to view the aviation page as a marketing front for you
business. Now, don't get me wrong, I don't see anything wrong putting a
video resource on your website, it's just the false pretence of 'education'
that just doesn't seem right/true.

Hilton

On your page, you say: "Our desire is that viewing the crash videos should
be an educational experience, with the goal of preventing similar
accidents
in the future." As a CFI, please tell me how I can learn from, and pass
on
lessons to my students regarding each of the videos on your website.

I tend to agree that there is very little there of value to a primary
student, but I'm trying to respond to the likes of Dudley H., who lambasted
me for presenting the videos as mere prurient entertainment.

Personally, I find the videos fascinating, and would watch them for that
reason alone -- but I'm trying to figure out a way to present them in a more
educational way that won't offend Dudley and his ilk. I think there's a
happy medium there somewhere, but it's going to take a lot more work to make
the page truly "educational."

Unfortunately, there are very few qualified people around who are able to
comment intelligently on aviation accidents -- and finding them is not
always easy. I've been lucky enough, for example, to find two expert
sources of commentary on the B-52 crash at Fairchild AFB, but that's been
the exception and not the rule. I would very much like to find more
examples of this kind in connection with the other videos -- but I'm not
sure where to start.

Otherwise, I tend to view the aviation page as a marketing front for you
business. Now, don't get me wrong, I don't see anything wrong putting a
video resource on your website, it's just the false pretence of
'education'
that just doesn't seem right/true.

For the moment, the pretence may be false because the educational content is
pretty thin. My point in posting, however, is that I would like to change
that!

As for the page being a "marketing tool," well, it's buried four layers down
from the main menus, and most of our guests find us on the internet by
typing "Iowa City Hotel" into Google -- not "aviation videos." As such,
that makes it a pretty ****-poor marketing tool..

Quite honestly, the video page is there because I want it to exist, plain
and simple. There are many better ways to market a hotel, and we do those,
too!
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Jay Honeck wrote:

but I'm not sure where to start.

Well why don't you start by contacting the wives, spouses, and other
family members of everyone who died in those accidents, and explain to
them that you are an INNKEEPER in IOWA who uses newsgroups to promote
yourself and your business and that recently you have discovered that
you can bring more people to your website by showing gruesome videos of
airplane accidents where people are killed in a violent manner.

Ask them if they have any insights into the accident that killed their
loved ones that they might be willing to share on YOUR website.

Perhaps they have additional previously unseen video they would like
to give you so that you can post it on your MOTEL'S website.

Tell you what Jay...... You post one e-mail from the widow of the
co-pilot of that B-52 where she supports your motives for posting
that bit of gruesome footage on the website of a motel, and where she
clearly thanks you for your efforts in bringing that footage to the
attention of recreational pilots like the type that frequent this
group, and where she clearly agrees that pilots in this group will
learn lots as they compare the idiocy of an arrogant pilot doing a
knife edge routine at low level in a MILITARY BOMBER and how that might
somehow be relevant and actually help pilots like yourself who fly a
PIPER or CESSNA aircraft.

Hey Jay..... When's the last time you did a low level knife edge in
your Piper with Mary and the kids on board, and what did you learn
from it.

SHOW ME THAT E-MAIL MR. HONECK AND I WILL NEVER BOTHER YOU AGAIN.

Quite honestly, the video page is there because I want it to exist, plain
and simple.

That is obvious, and personally I just don't understand how decent
pilots with families who frequent this newsgroup as many do, actually
back slap you and congratulate you for your efforts to show that type
of video on your motel's website.

There are many better ways to market a hotel,
and we do those, too!

Well you certainly couldn't prove that to anyone by your actions in
this newsgroup.

"Shiver Me Timbers" wrote in message
...
Jay Honeck wrote:

but I'm not sure where to start.

Well why don't you start by contacting the wives, spouses, and other
family members of everyone who died in those accidents,

That's stupid.

Just thought you should know that.

--
Jim Fisher

"Jim Fisher" wrote in message
...
"Shiver Me Timbers" wrote in message
...
Jay Honeck wrote:

but I'm not sure where to start.

Well why don't you start by contacting the wives, spouses, and other
family members of everyone who died in those accidents,

That's stupid.

Just thought you should know that.

--
Jim Fisher

I realize I'm talking here to someone who for some reason thinks my
signature file is tacked on my posts to impress people, but I'll try
this anyway.

Actually, it's not stupid at all, and I can tell you that at least one
widow has already done exactly that.
What's stupid is trying to pass off showing crash video of a B52 going
in out of knife edge or an F16 crashing coming out of a Reverse Half
Cuban; both crashes in an air show environment, and passing this off as
a safety lesson for general aviation pilots accessable on a personal
business related main page from a link called "COOL STUFF".
As for your comment about being reminded about a bomber crash while
flying the pattern; I realize that there is little I can teach some of
you folks on "piloting" about flight safety, but I would suggest to you
that you simply pay less attention to the bomber crash while you're in
the pattern, and a little more attention to your flying and you won't
need all this "vital safety information" you got by viewing the bomber
crash.
As for Honek; I appreciate his efforts to clean up his page on crash
videos. He did remove the word "enjoy", which I personally appreciated
since it was one of my friends dying in one of those videos.
Contrary to what you have stated about me repeatedly, I have no
objection at all to crash video being viewed in the right context. That
context is simply totally safety related and presented to a pilot
audience in a format that doesn't have an opening link that says "COOL
STUFF".

Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship
Flight Instructor/Aerobatics/Retired

Shiver Me Timbers wrote:

Well why don't you start by contacting the wives, spouses, and other
family members of everyone who died in those accidents, and explain to
them that you are an INNKEEPER in IOWA who uses newsgroups to promote
yourself and your business and that recently you have discovered that
you can bring more people to your website by showing gruesome videos of
airplane accidents where people are killed in a violent manner.

I'll actually fly to Iowa some day and stay at Jay and Mary's place
because I've been fortunate enough to get to know them personally, not
because of his signature line or what he puts on his website. I think
Jay has better business sense than to rely on newsgroups and the video
portion of his website for that oh so huge revenue potential.


--
Jack Allison
PP-ASEL, IA Student

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth
with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there
you will always long to return"
- Leonardo Da Vinci

(Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail)

On Sat, 25 Sep 2004 04:42:45 GMT, Jay Honeck wrote:

Quite honestly, the video page is there because I want it to exist, plain
and simple. There are many better ways to market a hotel, and we do those,
too!

yes, right here.

get another domain and host your aviation stuff without too much linking to
the hotel there. I guess then it would be much more appreciated by the
community.

#m

--
Somehow, some way, the Left trash talks "multi-national corporations" and
"big corporations" as if they were messengers of evil, when, in fact,
corporations represent the ultimate, perfect expression of communal
ownership of capital. (Jay Honeck in r.a.p.)

"Martin Hotze" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 25 Sep 2004 04:42:45 GMT, Jay Honeck wrote:

Quite honestly, the video page is there because I want it to exist, plain
and simple. There are many better ways to market a hotel, and we do
those,
too!

yes, right here.

get another domain and host your aviation stuff without too much linking
to
the hotel there. I guess then it would be much more appreciated by the
community.

Come on Martin, you are far from a usenet purist yourself, since you often
expouse your off topic views in this forum. So what if Jay is promoting his
business a little along with the aviation stuff? It's not like he is
promoting a porn site through an aviation newsgroup - the stuff is
relatively on target for the audience.


#m

--
Somehow, some way, the Left trash talks "multi-national corporations" and
"big corporations" as if they were messengers of evil, when, in fact,
corporations represent the ultimate, perfect expression of communal
ownership of capital. (Jay Honeck in r.a.p.)

And, as long as we are talking off-topic...

I am a card carrying member of the left, and a confirmed capitalist who has
greatly benefited from building and selling companies. There is no
anti-corporate bias to left politics. On the other hand, to believe that
"corporations represent the ultimate, perfect expression of communal
ownership of capital." is somewhat akin to believing in the tooth fairy.
Corporations can represent and be community assets within the confines of
responsible capitalism, or they can be money grubbing thoughtless polluters
and exploiters - it depends on management, not on the corporate entity or
the nature of capitalism.

On Sat, 25 Sep 2004 17:37:07 GMT, Michael 182 wrote:

Quite honestly, the video page is there because I want it to exist, plain
and simple. There are many better ways to market a hotel, and we do
those,
too!

yes, right here.

get another domain and host your aviation stuff without too much linking
to
the hotel there. I guess then it would be much more appreciated by the
community.

Come on Martin, you are far from a usenet purist yourself, since you often
expouse your off topic views in this forum.

agreed (on the off topic postings; but I must say that this only happens
here)

So what if Jay is promoting his
business a little along with the aviation stuff? It's not like he is
promoting a porn site through an aviation newsgroup - the stuff is
relatively on target for the audience.

there are many others here that have aviation related businesses, but they
don't promote their stuff in such a way like Jay does. besides: the domain
will cost him about $10 to $20/year.

--
^^^^^^^
you know what this is? this is a signature seperator. a 4 line signature is
widely accepted on usenet and can contain whatever offtopic you want.

Somehow, some way, the Left trash talks "multi-national corporations" and
"big corporations" as if they were messengers of evil, when, in fact,
corporations represent the ultimate, perfect expression of communal
ownership of capital. (Jay Honeck in r.a.p.)

And, as long as we are talking off-topic...

I am a card carrying member of the left, and a confirmed capitalist who has
greatly benefited from building and selling companies. There is no
anti-corporate bias to left politics. On the other hand, to believe that
"corporations represent the ultimate, perfect expression of communal
ownership of capital." is somewhat akin to believing in the tooth fairy.

I .sig'ed this sentence (it is from Jay) because it is funny. at least for
me. :-)

#m

--
Somehow, some way, the Left trash talks "multi-national corporations" and
"big corporations" as if they were messengers of evil, when, in fact,
corporations represent the ultimate, perfect expression of communal
ownership of capital. (Jay Honeck in r.a.p.)