Glider pilot rolls inverted and exits at 1400 feet AGL

http://news.stv.tv/tayside/282807-pi...de-in-mid-air/

On Sunday, July 27, 2014 7:14:48 PM UTC-4, son_of_flubber wrote:
http://news.stv.tv/tayside/282807-pi...de-in-mid-air/

My first take on the story was that control was lost after the collision and that he just happened to be inverted when he exited. Based on the numbers given he lost 600 feet after the collision.

Do aerobatic-versed pilots plan this inverted exit strategy in advance? It seems rather fast and efficient.

On Monday, July 28, 2014 10:22:42 AM UTC-5, son_of_flubber wrote:

Do aerobatic-versed pilots plan this inverted exit strategy in advance? It seems rather fast and efficient.

No. If you have enough control to roll inverted, you can probably land the glider.

After a midair, who knows what the plane will do.

And taking the time to roll upside down (real slooowww in a glider) is a poor choice most of the time, when all you have to do is undo your straps and slam the stick forward - if you get more than 1 negative G that's the same as falling out from an upside down cockpit.

But practically, after a midair your glider will probably either be spinning (loss of most a a wing?) or diving steeply (loss of tail controls) so the trick is to get out any way you can RIGHT NOW and not go for style points.

The "roll upside down and drop out" comes from situations in planes where you still had control but had to get out - like a fire, or out of fuel over unlandable terrain. Common advice in WW2 fighter manuals.

Of course, if you are upside down as a result of a midair, I sure wouldn't try to roll rightside up before getting out!


Kirk
66

Pushing the stick hard forward (assuming you still have some control) is one of the best advice I heard for exiting the cockpit. Probably something to add to mental bailout practices, as it may not be intuitive during bail out. Thanks Kirk for that advice.

Ramy

On Monday, July 28, 2014 8:55:12 PM UTC-7, Ramy wrote:
Pushing the stick hard forward (assuming you still have some control) is one of the best advice I heard for exiting the cockpit. Probably something to add to mental bailout practices, as it may not be intuitive during bail out. Thanks Kirk for that advice.



Ramy

I agree. I've never heard that advise before and it makes darn good sense. I've been doing 40 dips, 3 times a week to make sure that I have a fighting chance to get out of the cockpit. Pushing the stick forward sounds a heck of a lot easier than all those damn dips that I do.

On Tuesday, July 29, 2014 12:11:28 AM UTC-4, Steve Koerner wrote:
On Monday, July 28, 2014 8:55:12 PM UTC-7, Ramy wrote:

Pushing the stick hard forward (assuming you still have some control) is one of the best advice I heard for exiting the cockpit. Probably something to add to mental bailout practices, as it may not be intuitive during bail out. Thanks Kirk for that advice.







Ramy



I agree. I've never heard that advise before and it makes darn good sense. I've been doing 40 dips, 3 times a week to make sure that I have a fighting chance to get out of the cockpit. Pushing the stick forward sounds a heck of a lot easier than all those damn dips that I do.

what about the potential to injured your legs under the panel, or bang your head on the fuselage on the way out? no, i say climbing out is still probably the best way.

Assuming the tail is still connected!
It's possible to land inverted (too many Gs to bail out) and fly many national records afterwards.
Jim

If you have the time and control:

Jettison the canopy
Release the harness
Trim full nose down
Release the stick
Pull the D-ring (after safe separation from the aircraft)

If you can do all of the above, why jump? Unless you're on fire or over
unlandable terrain with nothing within reach. And why would any sane
pilot be there?

If no control:

Do what you gotta do to get out.

Dan Marotta

On 7/28/2014 9:55 PM, Ramy wrote:
Pushing the stick hard forward (assuming you still have some control) is one of the best advice I heard for exiting the cockpit. Probably something to add to mental bailout practices, as it may not be intuitive during bail out. Thanks Kirk for that advice.

Ramy

Not that straightforward Dan - you can have control from
damaged tailplane and then lose it when the damaged tailplane
departs. It is a very difficult judgement - one that I hope
never to have to make.

If the glider was controllable and I was able to climb I would
stay with it as long as possible to gain as much height and time
to assess the situation and to mentally prepare to jump or land.
There might be another glider nearby whose pilot could help
with the assessment.

John Galloway

At 15:43 29 July 2014, Dan Marotta wrote:
If you have the time and control:

Jettison the canopy
Release the harness
Trim full nose down
Release the stick
Pull the D-ring (after safe separation from the aircraft)

If you can do all of the above, why jump? Unless you're on
fire or over
unlandable terrain with nothing within reach. And why would
any sane
pilot be there?

If no control:

Do what you gotta do to get out.

Dan Marotta

On 7/28/2014 9:55 PM, Ramy wrote:
Pushing the stick hard forward (assuming you still have
some control) is
one of the best advice I heard for exiting the cockpit. Probably
something
to add to mental bailout practices, as it may not be intuitive
during bail
out. Thanks Kirk for that advice.

Ramy

Perhaps this thread could benefit from a first person perspective. (i.e. been there)

Situation: Mid air collision - major damage to left wing - glider turning left even with full right aileron and rudder.

Assessment: Glider minimally controllable - bailout imminent.

Action 1: Jettison doors (this was a Pratt-Read) to prepare for immediate egress.

Review situation: Left turn appears to be stable at 10 - 15 degree bank. Terrain 4000 feet below is flat and reasonably clear of obstacles. Glider is actually still climbing - is this good?

Conclusion: Bailout less than urgent. If glider can be made to descend into level terrain, it should result in a mild ground loop which might be less dangerous than a bailout.

Action 2: Initiate descent with full spoilers.

Result: Open spoiler on damaged left wing did not increase drag significantly but the one on the undamaged wing did - glider rolls level but still requires 75% right aileron and rudder. Glider is now partially controllable. Is it enough for a landing attempt?

Plan: Straight in approach to airfield. Review situation again before descending to 2500' AGL. If not good, initiate bailout above 2500'.

Result: Successful landing on airport property.

Review: Examination of damage revealed that the wing structure was significantly weakened. Had this been known in flight it would have likely resulted in a decision to abandon the glider.



On Tuesday, July 29, 2014 9:43:35 AM UTC-6, Dan Marotta wrote:
If you have the time and control:



Jettison the canopy

Release the harness

Trim full nose down

Release the stick

Pull the D-ring (after safe separation from the aircraft)



If you can do all of the above, why jump?� Unless you're on fire
or over unlandable terrain with nothing within reach.� And why
would any sane pilot be there?



If no control:



Do what you gotta do to get out.



Dan Marotta
On 7/28/2014 9:55 PM, Ramy wrote:



Pushing the stick hard forward (assuming you still have some control) is one of the best advice I heard for exiting the cockpit. Probably something to add to mental bailout practices, as it may not be intuitive during bail out. Thanks Kirk for that advice.

Ramy