glider/airplane collision

"BHelman" wrote in message
m...
There is another Tcas that is even smaller and can be battery powered.
It seems to have more favorable reviews. www.surecheckaviation.com

But does it stutter?

Tim Ward

"BHelman" wrote in message
m...
There is another Tcas that is even smaller and can be battery powered.
It seems to have more favorable reviews. www.surecheckaviation.com





The Shurecheck TPAS and the Proxalert R5 seem to be at the top of the small
heap of these passive devices. Unlike earlier generation devices that only
provided approximate range information (and left you guessing if it was an
airliner way above you or a chunk of GA aluminum closing on your tail), both
these newer units decode the "threat aircraft" transponder reply and display
their altitude info. Further, they both give you the ability to limit the
"shield volume", both in altitude and range, so as to minimize nuisance
alerts in busy areas.

Of these two, the R5 has more features, but also costs a couple of hundred
more. R5 has a bigger footprint than the VRX (5" X 4.65" compared to 3.6" X
5.3"), but is less obtrusive when mounted atop an aircraft panel. It
accomplishes this trick with an "L" shape design that has the base of the
"L" dropping down below the panel by about .8" to allow a bigger display
without blocking your view. Thus the R5 height above the panel is just 1"
compared to the VRX's 2" height.

Some other differences between the two: The R5 has no internal batteries, so
must be plugged or wired in, the VRX uses AA batteries and can also be
plugged in. The R5 displays 3 threat aircraft and tracks up to 10, the VRX
displays one. The R5 is the only passive device that displays threat
aircraft squawk, and from this you can tell if the threat is not getting ATC
advisories (SQ 1200), or talking to ATC and hopefully being told of your
presence (discrete SQ code), maybe military (I've heard, but don't know for
sure, that they may use unique SQ codes), or a glider (SQ 0440 near Reno,
NV).

The R5 has a built in speaker for audio alerts in a quiet cabin (glider),
VRX has no internal speaker, only audio in/out jacks so has to be hooked to
intercom, headset, etc. Both units weigh within an ounce of each other
(about 11 oz), in the case of the VRX, that's without batteries installed.

Power consumption with the R5 is substantially less (100 ma with backlight
off, 140 ma with the light on - - light not needed for daytime ops). The VRX
is a bit more thirsty, (claiming 175 ma to 400 ma, with 350 ma listed as
"nominal" in the user manual). For those not into such things, 100 ma or
milliamps is 1/10 of an amp.

I got my R5 four days ago and so far have only done ground testing, "burning
the unit in" for much of this time, I jump up and run outside to get a
visual when it "alerts" - - so far the accuracy is impressive. I've also
taken it to the airport to see how it does in a busy environment. I'll fly
with the R5 in my Mooney early next week and compare its alerts with the
info I get from NorCal approach . I'll also fly with it in my glider as soon
as possible, then will post a full review.

The R5 is relatively new, being available now for only a couple of months in
the US - - that's why you won't find many comparos on the internet yet. One
of the French developers must be a glider pilot as there's a glider on their
website and the text specifically refers to ops in a glider. The US
distributor is Proxalert in Phoenix, AZ phone 602 992-3120. So far, the
distributor's price ($1295) is less that advertised by Eastern Avionics
($1495).

--
bumper ZZ (reverse all after @)
"Dare to be different . . . circle in sink."

The problem with the prox device in my opinion is two-fold. Overall
size is huge, the readouts are tiny, and the screen is cluttered.
Power consumption is little concern for the Vrx if you plug it in.
since the prox unit doesn't take batteries anyway, the Vrx has a clear
advantage. The other problem is their approach of spamming the web
with "3rd party" reviews.

Given their reputation so far, foreign design, and lack of product
experience, I can't think of a good reason to spend the extra $ on the
prox.

The review I have seen from a pilot who flew with the prox has not
been too favorable thus far either.


"bumper" wrote in message ...
"BHelman" wrote in message
m...
There is another Tcas that is even smaller and can be battery powered.
It seems to have more favorable reviews. www.surecheckaviation.com





The Shurecheck TPAS and the Proxalert R5 seem to be at the top of the small
heap of these passive devices. Unlike earlier generation devices that only
provided approximate range information (and left you guessing if it was an
airliner way above you or a chunk of GA aluminum closing on your tail), both
these newer units decode the "threat aircraft" transponder reply and display
their altitude info. Further, they both give you the ability to limit the
"shield volume", both in altitude and range, so as to minimize nuisance
alerts in busy areas.

Of these two, the R5 has more features, but also costs a couple of hundred
more. R5 has a bigger footprint than the VRX (5" X 4.65" compared to 3.6" X
5.3"), but is less obtrusive when mounted atop an aircraft panel. It
accomplishes this trick with an "L" shape design that has the base of the
"L" dropping down below the panel by about .8" to allow a bigger display
without blocking your view. Thus the R5 height above the panel is just 1"
compared to the VRX's 2" height.

Some other differences between the two: The R5 has no internal batteries, so
must be plugged or wired in, the VRX uses AA batteries and can also be
plugged in. The R5 displays 3 threat aircraft and tracks up to 10, the VRX
displays one. The R5 is the only passive device that displays threat
aircraft squawk, and from this you can tell if the threat is not getting ATC
advisories (SQ 1200), or talking to ATC and hopefully being told of your
presence (discrete SQ code), maybe military (I've heard, but don't know for
sure, that they may use unique SQ codes), or a glider (SQ 0440 near Reno,
NV).

The R5 has a built in speaker for audio alerts in a quiet cabin (glider),
VRX has no internal speaker, only audio in/out jacks so has to be hooked to
intercom, headset, etc. Both units weigh within an ounce of each other
(about 11 oz), in the case of the VRX, that's without batteries installed.

Power consumption with the R5 is substantially less (100 ma with backlight
off, 140 ma with the light on - - light not needed for daytime ops). The VRX
is a bit more thirsty, (claiming 175 ma to 400 ma, with 350 ma listed as
"nominal" in the user manual). For those not into such things, 100 ma or
milliamps is 1/10 of an amp.

I got my R5 four days ago and so far have only done ground testing, "burning
the unit in" for much of this time, I jump up and run outside to get a
visual when it "alerts" - - so far the accuracy is impressive. I've also
taken it to the airport to see how it does in a busy environment. I'll fly
with the R5 in my Mooney early next week and compare its alerts with the
info I get from NorCal approach . I'll also fly with it in my glider as soon
as possible, then will post a full review.

The R5 is relatively new, being available now for only a couple of months in
the US - - that's why you won't find many comparos on the internet yet. One
of the French developers must be a glider pilot as there's a glider on their
website and the text specifically refers to ops in a glider. The US
distributor is Proxalert in Phoenix, AZ phone 602 992-3120. So far, the
distributor's price ($1295) is less that advertised by Eastern Avionics
($1495).

actually the Surecheck collision avoidance system is very compact and should
be no problem for installation in a glider....it's unfortunately not in a
round instrument mount case, but really takes less space overall than any of
the new transponders and encoders and needs no external antenna.
The newest models also are better and VRX model gives altitude readout of
closing traffic.
IMHO this is a better idea for most glider pilots than a transponder might
be, it doesn't show all traffic, only those approaching with a transponder
on, but a transponder won't show you any and you are dependant on ATC
notifying you and the approaching traffic of your relative positions, it
won't signal an aircraft with TCAS that you are there but many of the close
calls will be with aircraft not equipped with TCAS anyway....the main thing
will always be to be vigilant and look outside, The Surecheck collision
avoidance system can help you to do this....and if you are really concerned
about traffic where you are flying the best thing will be to fly somewhere
else....before you're featured on 20/20 or nightline and we all lose
airspace available to us now...
please look at the Surecheck VR and VRX on my site and links to there site
at http://wingsandwheels.com/page4.htm
tim

"BHelman" wrote in message
m...
The problem with the prox device in my opinion is two-fold. Overall
size is huge, the readouts are tiny, and the screen is cluttered.
Power consumption is little concern for the Vrx if you plug it in.
since the prox unit doesn't take batteries anyway, the Vrx has a clear
advantage. The other problem is their approach of spamming the web
with "3rd party" reviews.

Given their reputation so far, foreign design, and lack of product
experience, I can't think of a good reason to spend the extra $ on the
prox.

The review I have seen from a pilot who flew with the prox has not
been too favorable thus far either.


"bumper" wrote in message
...
"BHelman" wrote in message
m...
There is another Tcas that is even smaller and can be battery powered.
It seems to have more favorable reviews. www.surecheckaviation.com





The Shurecheck TPAS and the Proxalert R5 seem to be at the top of the
small
heap of these passive devices. Unlike earlier generation devices that
only
provided approximate range information (and left you guessing if it was
an
airliner way above you or a chunk of GA aluminum closing on your tail),
both
these newer units decode the "threat aircraft" transponder reply and
display
their altitude info. Further, they both give you the ability to limit
the
"shield volume", both in altitude and range, so as to minimize nuisance
alerts in busy areas.

Of these two, the R5 has more features, but also costs a couple of
hundred
more. R5 has a bigger footprint than the VRX (5" X 4.65" compared to
3.6" X
5.3"), but is less obtrusive when mounted atop an aircraft panel. It
accomplishes this trick with an "L" shape design that has the base of
the
"L" dropping down below the panel by about .8" to allow a bigger display
without blocking your view. Thus the R5 height above the panel is just
1"
compared to the VRX's 2" height.

Some other differences between the two: The R5 has no internal
batteries, so
must be plugged or wired in, the VRX uses AA batteries and can also be
plugged in. The R5 displays 3 threat aircraft and tracks up to 10, the
VRX
displays one. The R5 is the only passive device that displays threat
aircraft squawk, and from this you can tell if the threat is not getting
ATC
advisories (SQ 1200), or talking to ATC and hopefully being told of your
presence (discrete SQ code), maybe military (I've heard, but don't know
for
sure, that they may use unique SQ codes), or a glider (SQ 0440 near
Reno,
NV).

The R5 has a built in speaker for audio alerts in a quiet cabin
(glider),
VRX has no internal speaker, only audio in/out jacks so has to be hooked
to
intercom, headset, etc. Both units weigh within an ounce of each other
(about 11 oz), in the case of the VRX, that's without batteries
installed.

Power consumption with the R5 is substantially less (100 ma with
backlight
off, 140 ma with the light on - - light not needed for daytime ops). The
VRX
is a bit more thirsty, (claiming 175 ma to 400 ma, with 350 ma listed as
"nominal" in the user manual). For those not into such things, 100 ma or
milliamps is 1/10 of an amp.

I got my R5 four days ago and so far have only done ground testing,
"burning
the unit in" for much of this time, I jump up and run outside to get a
visual when it "alerts" - - so far the accuracy is impressive. I've also
taken it to the airport to see how it does in a busy environment. I'll
fly
with the R5 in my Mooney early next week and compare its alerts with the
info I get from NorCal approach . I'll also fly with it in my glider as
soon
as possible, then will post a full review.

The R5 is relatively new, being available now for only a couple of
months in
the US - - that's why you won't find many comparos on the internet yet.
One
of the French developers must be a glider pilot as there's a glider on
their
website and the text specifically refers to ops in a glider. The US
distributor is Proxalert in Phoenix, AZ phone 602 992-3120. So far, the
distributor's price ($1295) is less that advertised by Eastern Avionics
($1495).

Tim Mara wrote:
IMHO this is a better idea for most glider pilots than a transponder might
be, it doesn't show all traffic, only those approaching with a transponder
on, but a transponder won't show you any and you are dependant on ATC
notifying you and the approaching traffic of your relative positions, it
won't signal an aircraft with TCAS that you are there but many of the close
calls will be with aircraft not equipped with TCAS anyway....

Will it work in the large areas of the western US where radar coverage
is spotty or nonexistent, since transponders don't transmit unless
interrogated?

Marc

as far as I know transponders do transmit even when not being
interogated.they just don't reply with as strong a signal and not as often
tim

"Marc Ramsey" wrote in message
. com...
Tim Mara wrote:
IMHO this is a better idea for most glider pilots than a transponder
might
be, it doesn't show all traffic, only those approaching with a
transponder
on, but a transponder won't show you any and you are dependant on ATC
notifying you and the approaching traffic of your relative positions, it
won't signal an aircraft with TCAS that you are there but many of the
close
calls will be with aircraft not equipped with TCAS anyway....

Will it work in the large areas of the western US where radar coverage
is spotty or nonexistent, since transponders don't transmit unless
interrogated?

Marc

Tim Mara wrote:
as far as I know transponders do transmit even when not being
interogated.they just don't reply with as strong a signal and not as often

I don't believe they transmit at all, unless they receive a radar
signal. Perhaps Eric or others more knowledgeable than I, know...

Marc

Marc Ramsey wrote:

Tim Mara wrote:

as far as I know transponders do transmit even when not being
interogated.they just don't reply with as strong a signal and not as
often


I don't believe they transmit at all, unless they receive a radar
signal. Perhaps Eric or others more knowledgeable than I, know...

I've never read that or heard anyone suggest that before, so I really
doubt it. They were designed long before the passive "alerter" units
became available, which are the only instruments I know of that might
benefit from it. Perhaps someone with a TPAS, Surecheck, etc could tell
us if their unit gets a signal from their airplane when it's in the
hangar and the transponder clearly isn't getting hit by radar?

--
-----
change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA

Tim Mara wrote:
as far as I know transponders do transmit even when not being
interogated.they just don't reply with as strong a signal and not as often
tim

Transponder: transmits as a response? As far as I know, they
only transmit when interrogated (at least the OLD ones did).

Transponders don't transmit unless interrogated, typically by either ground
radar or other aircraft equipped with TCAS.

In areas with no radar coverage, passive devices would be less useful
although TCAS equipped aircraft may interrogate nearby aircraft. Then if
they are in range, either could show up on passive devices. The risk of
collision is greater near airports and in busier areas and these most often
have radar coverage.

bumper




"Eric Greenwell" wrote in message
...
Marc Ramsey wrote:

Tim Mara wrote:

as far as I know transponders do transmit even when not being
interogated.they just don't reply with as strong a signal and not as
often


I don't believe they transmit at all, unless they receive a radar
signal. Perhaps Eric or others more knowledgeable than I, know...

I've never read that or heard anyone suggest that before, so I really
doubt it. They were designed long before the passive "alerter" units
became available, which are the only instruments I know of that might
benefit from it. Perhaps someone with a TPAS, Surecheck, etc could tell
us if their unit gets a signal from their airplane when it's in the
hangar and the transponder clearly isn't getting hit by radar?

--
-----
change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA