Do we, as a group, just suck?

I see your vote is for more idiots. You're for "masses" even if they're
"asses." You might as well--as we all should--face the fact that pilots are
a relatively small group of people and will remain that way until they make
flying small aircraft fully automated. Getting rid of the bottom 10% of the
barrel won't render us politically ineffective.

I don't remember advocating more difficult primary training requirements but
to make myself clear, I think there should be a way to ensure that pilots
who should never be up in the air in the first place never make it there. If
you think that's unreasonable, I'm open to opinions. (Maybe the 7-year
suspension on the table would be appealling to you--they would still be able
to consider themselves pilots.)

Marco Leon


"Michael" wrote in message
oups.com...
Maybe they should start thinking about a permanent revocation on severe
TFR
violations. Or maybe they should implement a wash-out possibility
(similar to the
miliary) during PPL training so these folks don't make it into the
system in
the first place.

Makes sense. Because after all, things will be so much better when
it's harder to obtain a pilot certificate, easier to lose it, and there
are fewer of us. I'm sure that even though we will represent fewer
dollars and fewer votes, the politicians (and various anti-noise,
anti-airport activists) will be reasonable and will reward us for being
responsible and policing our own ranks, and will not look at our
declining numbers as a cue that they can restrict us further in order
to appear to be "doing something" (or to increase the value of the
homes they bought at a discount next to the airport) with less
political fallout.

Michael




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Marco Leon mmleonyahoo.com wrote:

I see your vote is for more idiots.
snip

Seems like Michael's post was dripping with sarcasm to me.

--
Peter


















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Great plan. Revoke my license as much as you like. I will keep flying. There
are not enough people working for the FAA to hunt me down every weekend.

When I was flying in AK, I know a couple of guys whose certificates were
"pulled" for a period of time and they kept flying.

Revocations and such mean nothing to the GA pilot. Just like you MUST have a
medical, BFR etc.

Whose gonna "catch" us?
"Michael" wrote in message
oups.com...
Maybe they should start thinking about a permanent revocation on severe
TFR
violations. Or maybe they should implement a wash-out possibility
(similar to the
miliary) during PPL training so these folks don't make it into the system
in
the first place.

Makes sense. Because after all, things will be so much better when
it's harder to obtain a pilot certificate, easier to lose it, and there
are fewer of us. I'm sure that even though we will represent fewer
dollars and fewer votes, the politicians (and various anti-noise,
anti-airport activists) will be reasonable and will reward us for being
responsible and policing our own ranks, and will not look at our
declining numbers as a cue that they can restrict us further in order
to appear to be "doing something" (or to increase the value of the
homes they bought at a discount next to the airport) with less
political fallout.

Michael

On Fri, 29 Jul 2005 10:57:32 -0400, "Skylune"
wrote:

I (an anti-GA activist) think Michael has it right too.

And I (a pro-GA activist) actually agree with you and Michael.

Wow.

Mike Weller
(A different Michael, but we have met at PJY.)

In article
outaviation.com,
"Skylune" wrote:

I (an anti-GA activist) think Michael has it right too.

Who CARES what "Skylune" thinks?

On Fri, 29 Jul 2005 11:11:10 -0400, "Marco Leon" mmleon(at)yahoo.com
wrote in ::

I think there should be a way to ensure that pilots
who should never be up in the air in the first place never make it there.

Isn't that the responsibility of the Designated Pilot Examiner?

I agree. I read the sarcasm to be towards me. Did I read it in a way that
was unintended?

Marco Leon


"Peter R." wrote in message
...
Marco Leon mmleonyahoo.com wrote:

I see your vote is for more idiots.
snip

Seems like Michael's post was dripping with sarcasm to me.

--
Peter


















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Well, for one, there would be a good chance of bringing you up on criminal
charges. If I was the prosecutor, I'd start with a search on "reckless" and
"endangerment."

With that attitude, why didn't you save yourself some $$ and skip the
practical test?? Or maybe that's exactly what you did...

Marco Leon

"John Larson" None ... wrote in message
...
Great plan. Revoke my license as much as you like. I will keep flying.
There
are not enough people working for the FAA to hunt me down every weekend.

When I was flying in AK, I know a couple of guys whose certificates were
"pulled" for a period of time and they kept flying.

Revocations and such mean nothing to the GA pilot. Just like you MUST have
a
medical, BFR etc.

Whose gonna "catch" us?
"Michael" wrote in message
oups.com...
Maybe they should start thinking about a permanent revocation on severe
TFR
violations. Or maybe they should implement a wash-out possibility
(similar to the
miliary) during PPL training so these folks don't make it into the
system
in
the first place.

Makes sense. Because after all, things will be so much better when
it's harder to obtain a pilot certificate, easier to lose it, and there
are fewer of us. I'm sure that even though we will represent fewer
dollars and fewer votes, the politicians (and various anti-noise,
anti-airport activists) will be reasonable and will reward us for being
responsible and policing our own ranks, and will not look at our
declining numbers as a cue that they can restrict us further in order
to appear to be "doing something" (or to increase the value of the
homes they bought at a discount next to the airport) with less
political fallout.

Michael






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Getting rid of the bottom 10% of the
barrel won't render us politically ineffective.

The bottom 10% of the barrel lasts exactly as long as the barrel
itself. Keep cutrting it, and we will be politically ineffective soon
enough. We're damn near there already.

There are already mechanisms in place to prevent the unfit from taking
to the skies - it takes both a CFI to sign off on the checkride, and a
DE to issue the ticket. What steps do you think you're going to add to
the process? Who will administer them?

If it's the same people, they need no new powers. A DE already has
very broad discretion for busting an applicant. A CFI has TOTAL
discretion for refusing to sign one off.

How effective do you think your filtering is going to be, anyway? For
every idiot you manage to remove, how many potentially good pilots will
you discourage with the extra hassle and expense?

There is already a process for revocation as well, and it's pretty
streamlined - no mucking about with any presumptions of innocence,
rules of evidence, or any such nonsense. If a fed wants to ground you,
he will gound you. Despite the fact that you can theoretically get a
new ticket later, how many people, exactly, have gone on to regain a
license after having it revoked (meaning actually had to start over
again with the private?) and then went on to commit more violations? I
believe they're all going to have a meeting next week in the back of my
Twin Comanche.

So you can make new rules - but who will enforce them? The same people
doing it now? Then the results will be no more effective.

Just so you know - plenty of people flying with no certificate at all.

Michael

I'd be running too, if F-16s were sending flares my way. Typical
HotDogger, pulls a stunt
and runs away.

A light spray of .50 caliber rounds upon landing would have insured his
surrender.

JG