Student Drop-Out Rates...why?

In article ,
Jose wrote:
The point is that in both cases, somebody who is attracted to aviation
goes "just so far" and then is satisfied. Jay doesn't understand how
this can be so. For the person who is satisfied by having mastered
enough to solo, he's happy in a way that Jay doesn't understand, because
he has the drive to go further. But Jay too has "stopped"... albeit at
a different place. The reasons that Jay has for stopping are reasons
that Jay understands, since they are =his= reasons, despite the
arguments I've given for continuing on.



My point is that there is a huge difference between dipping your feet in
the water and then bailing out, and actually finishing your certificate
to become a certificated pilot. Once you become a certificated pilot,
you are a pilot--obtaining a commercial, multi, etc. doesn't make you
any more of a pilot, just as obtaining a commercial driver's license
doesn't make you any more of a driver.

Those who bail before obtaining a pilot certificate are not pilots, and
may not exercise the privileges of a pilot certificate.



JKG

"Jonathan Goodish" wrote in message
...
In article . net,
"Mike Rapoport" wrote:

His point is that all people decide to stop progressing at some point.
He
used Jay as an example of someone who stopped progressing at single
engine,
fixed gear VFR flying. Others may stop at solo. I don't see much of a
difference between stopping at solo or at PP.


Stopping at solo doesn't make you a certificated pilot. Jay's question
seemed to ask why many folks bail out before they become pilots.

Once you have taken the tests and become a certificated pilot, there is
little reason to progress beyond that point unless you intend to fly for
a living or fly an airplane that requires more advanced certificates and
ratings. The fact is, a private pilot is a certificated pilot--who can
do anything a commercial pilot can do except fly for hire. An airplane
is pretty much an airplane, and unless I have a need for a twin, or an
instrument rating, why would I want to obtain them?

I hold advanced certificates and ratings, but most of the time the type
of flying I do requires nothing more than a basic private pilot
certificate. If I were just a student pilot, I wouldn't have the skills
nor the legal authority to use aviation as a beneficial tool or hobby.
Sounds like a pretty big difference to me.



JKG

All true, I was thinking of the person who quits flying shortly after
completing the flight test. To some, learning to fly is a challenge and
when they percieve that the challenge has been met, they move on.

Mike
MU-2

Larry Dighera wrote:


I have no idea if the cost of flight training is still covered by the
GI Bill, but it was a strong motivating factor in the past. The
problem was, as I recall, that only those instruction costs beyond the
Private Pilot certificate were covered.

On Fri, 19 Aug 2005 13:20:15 -0600, RomeoMike
wrote in ::

I know of two WW II vets who got their private certificates under the GI
Bill.


I wonder if that's possible now. If so, it would seem that pitching
GA to veterans might be productive.

In article .com,
"Michael" wrote:

You'll notice I've not mentioned the Number One reason people
mention for quitting: Money.

That's because it is indeed the number one reason. Or, more precisely
- flying does not offer good value for the money.

Words are going to fail me here, but I couldn't disagree more.
Flying offers unbelievable value for the money. I can't properly
express why I love flying and what I love best about flying. Some
might call my flying boring (e.g., no aerobatics), but it brings great
joy to me. Far more joy than riding a motorcycle, or hiking, or
music (real music). When I can no longer fly because of health
reasons I will treasure the time I spent flying or futzing with
my airplane.

Of course, as you implied later, for those not addicted to aviation,
flying isn't a good use of money.


[snip]

to go way OT...
Motorcycles are loud, they're
dangerous,

Not all motorcycles are loud. For example, mine isn't.
Motorcycles are not inherently loud. Just yesterday I was
behind a pickup with a modified exhaust that was louder
than any motorcycle I've heard.

And a signicant source of danger for the motorcycle rider
comes from the idiots who drive cars.

--
Bob Noel
no one likes an educated mule

In article .com,
"Gene Seibel" wrote:

Flying is boring to the generation that has been raised on action
filled TV, movies, and video games.

they don't have a clue.

--
Bob Noel
no one likes an educated mule

His point is that all people decide to stop progressing at some point. He
used Jay as an example of someone who stopped progressing at single engine,
fixed gear VFR flying. Others may stop at solo. I don't see much of a
difference between stopping at solo or at PP.

I understand Jose's point completely, although the analogy is
imperfect.

Unfortunately, however, you have both missed the point, which is this:
Flying is a magical, almost spiritual experience for thousands of
people just like me. To be floating in the heavens, far above the
earth's troubles, is the "magic" that these pilots apparently aren't
"getting" -- it has nothing to do with any "progression" from solo to
private to instrument to multi-engine.

Now that I think about it, THAT is the part that I truly don't "get".
How anyone can take the controls of an airplane and not feel that magic
is simply beyond me -- and how anyone can simply choose to never
experience it again (by quitting flying) is proof that they never felt
the magic in the first place.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

In article .com,
Jay Honeck wrote:

Unfortunately, however, you have both missed the point, which is this:
Flying is a magical, almost spiritual experience for thousands of
people just like me. To be floating in the heavens, far above the
earth's troubles, is the "magic" that these pilots apparently aren't
"getting" -- it has nothing to do with any "progression" from solo to
private to instrument to multi-engine.

Being under the ocean's surface while scuba diving is also a magical
and spiritual experience for thousands of people. I did my scuba
training, did a few dives on my honeymoon 7 years ago, and haven't
dove since. It isn't because I don't want to, but making the time
to do that would take away from other things I want to do. Now that
the divorce is almost final, maybe I'll have the time to get back to
scuba diving.

I've jumped out of a perfectly good airplane. Floating in the air
without a plane is very magical, but it has been 15 years since I
did that.

Now that I think about it, THAT is the part that I truly don't "get".
How anyone can take the controls of an airplane and not feel that magic
is simply beyond me -- and how anyone can simply choose to never
experience it again (by quitting flying) is proof that they never felt
the magic in the first place.

You can feel the 'magic' and still be able to walk away from it.
I still remember looking over at the jumpmaster as I hung onto the
strut of the jump plane for that first jump. I also still remember
my first solo. Both are magical experiences.

There are too many 'magical' things in this world to be able to
experience them all on a regular basis. One needs to choose which
ones they concentrate on. For some people, that is flying, for
others, it is scuba diving, parachuting, or golf.

John
--
John Clear - http://www.clear-prop.org/

Jay Honeck wrote:

I've heard anecdotaly there are a disproportionate number of dropouts
immediately after soloing, and the suspicion is that for some, the main
goal to conquer is flying alone. Once they do that, they feel 'done',
even if it means that they never fly again, or don't ever get their
ticket.

That's odd, to me -- the solo flight was never the be-all and end-all. I
remember that flight as if it were yesterday (who doesn't?), and all I
could
think of was that the prelude was finally over. *NOW* I could really
start learning to fly.

Perhaps that's something the CFI must learn to teach?


Hi Jay,

may seem odd to you but you can't measure other people's
responses/reactions by your desires.

I think one reason some people quite is boredom.

Perhaps they had this incredible romantic, awesome, free-as-a-bird notion of
what flying was like, and when faced with the reality, the romance etc
didn't measure up to *their* fantasy.

Or maybe what they dreamt of was aerobatic jet jockeying, and the work to
get there seemed too long once they began.

--
Saville

Replicas of 15th-19th century nautical navigational instruments:

http://home.comcast.net/~saville/backstaffhome.html

Restoration of my 82 year old Herreshoff S-Boat sailboat:

http://home.comcast.net/~saville/SBOATrestore.htm

Steambending FAQ with photos:

http://home.comcast.net/~saville/Steambend.htm

Jay Honeck wrote:

That aside, can you name some other reasons for the abysmal drop-out rate of
student pilots?

I've known three people closely who took lessons and quit. One took an
introductory lesson, agreed that the feeling was great, took one look at the
bill, and said "maybe after Peter graduates from college." (Peter was at that
time about 12). One took one or two lessons and then moved to Vermont -- far
enough out that wood is the preferred heating method for the houses in his area.
That also involved a job change with lots less money, so flying went back down
to a "maybe someday" status item. The third guy took several lessons and was
doing pretty well. Then things got a little hectic at work, and he couldn't fly
often enough for the lessons to do any good. His wife is also terrified of light
aircraft. She was very good (so he says) about not pressuring him to quit, but
I'm sure it played some small part.

I obtained the AOPA "mentor" packages for all three of these people. I sort of
gave up after that.

When I was in training myself, two other people at work got their tickets. One
later bought a "fixer-upper" of a house. About the same time, a relative left
him an old Mercedes. What with fixing those items, he didn't have any time or
money to spare on aviation. Last I heard, he doesn't even find flying
interesting. The other guy kept studying for his instrument rating. Two years
later, he was still studying for his instrument rating. Got married and when the
kids started to arrive, he gradually quit flying.

Shortly after I got my ticket, a young lady at work expressed an interest in
flying, and my boss introduced us. I drove her out to the airport, showed her
around, marched her up to the counter, and let them take over from there. When I
next asked, she had gone for an eye exam and discovered that she had no depth
perception. I could not convince her that it probably wouldn't make a difference
in her flying. My personal suspicion is that she was disappointed by the spartan
interior of light aircraft (as another poster has mentioned).

Basically though, in nearly every case it's lack of time and/or money.

George Patterson
Give a person a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a person to
use the Internet and he won't bother you for weeks.

Mike Rapoport wrote:

All true, I was thinking of the person who quits flying shortly after
completing the flight test. To some, learning to fly is a challenge and
when they percieve that the challenge has been met, they move on.

I wonder if the frequently-voiced old saying "Now you have a license to learn"
is counter-productive? Maybe we shouldn't put so much emphasis on this.

George Patterson
Give a person a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a person to
use the Internet and he won't bother you for weeks.