Why can't the French dump fuel?

James Robinson wrote:

Cub Driver wrote:


ThomasH wrote:


It almost sounds as if you would be believing that Airbus is French.
:-)

It is, for all practical purposes. There would be no Airbus without
France; it's located in Toulouse; and France is the largest
stakeholder.


Not true. The Toulouse plant may be where final assembly is done, and
where the operating headquarters of Airbus is located, but there are a
number of other manufacturing plants, and France is not the largest
stakeholder. The company is 20% owned by British Aerospace, with the
remaining 80% owned by EADS.

According to the following site, the ownership or EADS is:

http://www.reports.eads.net/2004/ar_...c_b3_3_3_0.php

- 30.2% Daimler Chrysler
- 15.1% Government of France
- 15.1% Lagardère (A French corporation)
- 5.5% Government of Spain
- 33.2% Publicly held shares

Therefore, the French government only owns about 12% of airbus, and is
not the largest shareholder.

Why should that interest anyone?

What those figures do show is that French ownership is in the range
24.16 to 50.72 %, depending on what portion of the "Publicly held
shares" are in French hands.

Even at the minimum limit of 24 %, French participation is
still bigger than that of any other country, as far as one
can tell from those numbers.

So which country has a larger stake than France according to you ?

CV

Robert M. Gary wrote:

Joe,
You sound like an EXCELLENT advocate for having the ability to dump
fuel too!!!

-Robert

Robert,

Why are you in such a hurry to dump fuel? Doing that starts to limit
your time / options available for trouble shooting the problem and
diverting to another airport.

The first two memory items on any emergency checklist a

1. FLY THE AIRPLANE
2. DON'T HURRY

Dumping fuel violates #2. Besides, IF you really need to land in a
hurry, the A320 can do that at any weight. These guys took off for NY
with a full load of passengers. That means that they had a lot of fuel
onboard and a heavy takeoff weight. To land at that weight would have
required a much higher landing speed. Since they had the hydraulics
(green system) turned off to the nosewheel steering system, (per
emergency checklist) this also reduced their braking ability because
this same hydraulic system also controls the #1 engine reverse, and
normal braking, i.e. antiskid assisted braking.

BJ
A320 Capt.

One consideration would be the potential for a fuel dump system
malfunciton...

What would you be asking if an A320 had gone kersplash in the ocean because
of a fuel loss from a dump system that it didn't need?

--
Geoff
the sea hawk at wow way d0t com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail

Spell checking is left as an excercise for the reader.
"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
oups.com...
Does anyone have any insight into why the A320 isn't able to dump fuel.
What factors would go into such a design compromise?
-Robert

CV wrote:

- 30.2% Daimler Chrysler
- 15.1% Government of France
- 15.1% Lagardère (A French corporation)
- 5.5% Government of Spain
- 33.2% Publicly held shares

So which country has a larger stake than France according to you ?

What percentage of Daimler Chrisler is USA owned? ;-)

Why should that interest anyone?

Exactly.

Stefan

"jbaloun" wrote

I did not say there would not be an environmental impact, just that the
fuel dumped in flight is likely oxidized and would not stay in the air
or land on the ground in the form of raw fuel.

I think you are making a mistake, in you use of "oxidized" in this case.

"Oxidized" is combining it with oxygen chemically, as in "burning". In this
case, there is no combining chemically, but only vaporization, as in
evaporating. In both cases, no fuel reaches the ground.
--
Jim in NC

CV wrote:

James Robinson wrote:

Cub Driver wrote:

ThomasH wrote:

It almost sounds as if you would be believing that Airbus is
French.

It is, for all practical purposes. There would be no Airbus without
France; it's located in Toulouse; and France is the largest
stakeholder.

Not true. The Toulouse plant may be where final assembly is done,
and where the operating headquarters of Airbus is located, but there
are a number of other manufacturing plants, and France is not the
largest stakeholder. The company is 20% owned by British Aerospace,
with the remaining 80% owned by EADS.

According to the following site, the ownership or EADS is:

http://www.reports.eads.net/2004/ar_...c_b3_3_3_0.php

- 30.2% Daimler Chrysler
- 15.1% Government of France
- 15.1% Lagardère (A French corporation)
- 5.5% Government of Spain
- 33.2% Publicly held shares

Therefore, the French government only owns about 12% of airbus, and
is not the largest shareholder.

Why should that interest anyone?

Someone made an incorrect statement, I was simply correcting it.

What those figures do show is that French ownership is in the range
24.16 to 50.72%, depending on what portion of the "Publicly held
shares" are in French hands.

Even at the minimum limit of 24%, French participation is
still bigger than that of any other country, as far as one
can tell from those numbers.

So which country has a larger stake than France according to you ?

No country, but there are larger stakeholders. The poster had suggested
that France, as in the country, was the largest stakeholder (he didn't
say "the French" or "French shareholders") Daimler Chrysler is the
largest stakeholder, and British Aerospace is also larger than the
French Government.

Yossarian:
so they went for lower landing weight to get shorter stopping distance.

And to reduce the size of any potential fireball afterwards.

On 2005-09-28, Capt. Geoffry Thorpe The wrote:
What would you be asking if an A320 had gone kersplash in the ocean because
of a fuel loss from a dump system that it didn't need?

Well, what navigational error caused an A320 to be going over the ocean
in the first place! (Does anyone fly trans-oceanic A320 flights?)

--
Dylan Smith, Castletown, Isle of Man
Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net
Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net
"Maintain thine airspeed, lest the ground come up and smite thee"

On 2005-09-28, CV wrote:
Even at the minimum limit of 24 %, French participation is
still bigger than that of any other country, as far as one
can tell from those numbers.

Since when was Daimler-Chrysler a French company?

--
Dylan Smith, Castletown, Isle of Man
Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net
Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net
"Maintain thine airspeed, lest the ground come up and smite thee"

It almost sounds as if you would be believing that Airbus is French. :-)

I guess I'm just following the subsidies.