Seaplanes?

Daryl wrote:
Superfloats are able to do it... ...less complex tailwheels (fully steerable),

I wonder if one has to get a tail wheel check out for this thing. :)

Gig:
It is the sound that matters.

A or An.
Use an in place of a when it precedes a vowel sound, not just a vowel. That
means it's "an honor" (the h is silent), but "a UFO" (because it's
pronounced yoo eff oh).


This was what I was taught also: a UFO, an Unidentified Flying Object.

The ability to land in rough water is limited by the hull strength.
Pontoon type floats have struts and the struts can break. Hull type
aircraft such as a Lake use the hull itself to land on, no struts.
Although you CAN break anything, usually hull type aircraft can land on
the incoming wave's backside (the worst spot), hit and not breakup
HARDER than can pontoon aircraft. Of course it depends on the plane.
Larger planes tend to do better. But even the Beavers and such can
break a strut. Usually when the waves start whitecapping, 15knot winds
or so, small GA planes can no longer land safely on whitecapping waves.
But there are waves and there are other waves, it all depends.

Like Pete said, high wings tend to be able to get into docks better
because their wings clear the docks. Low wing planes usually wont
clear, so you can't get the fuselage up next to the dock.

Yeah, the part I liked best was climbing over the cowl to the right float
when the pax seats were full.

Seth

"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
ups.com...
I always found preflight to be an acrobatic routine. There is a lot of
rigging all over the place on a float plane.

-Robert

On 6 Dec 2005 02:58:43 -0800, "Doug"
wrote in . com::

Usually when the waves start whitecapping, 15knot winds
or so, small GA planes can no longer land safely on whitecapping waves.
But there are waves and there are other waves, it all depends.

In the channel between Santa Barbara and the Channel Islands the
swells can often be 20' to 30' feet without whitecaps!

"Doug" wrote in message
ups.com...
The ability to land in rough water is limited by the hull strength.

Yes, that too. But control on the water surface is at least as important as
not breaking something. The hull design also affects the forces
experienced; a shallow hull decelerates more quickly, transmitting higher
forces to the airframe.

Sheer strength is always a factor, of course...but that's true of every
aspect of aircraft design. It's often not primary, and I disagree that it
is here. Hulls intended for rough water operation are designed with a
steeper "V".

"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
...
In the channel between Santa Barbara and the Channel Islands the
swells can often be 20' to 30' feet without whitecaps!

Swells are given that name specifically because they are different from what
is generally considered a wave. In particular, they are usually farther
apart (and often higher).

Not that I have personal experience -- I try to stay away from waterways
with swells -- but my understanding is that landing a seaplane in swells is
similar to ditching procedures. That is, try to land parallel to the swell,
not across it.

It's an entirely different technique from normal landings on waves.

Pete

On Tue, 6 Dec 2005 10:03:22 -0800, "Peter Duniho"
wrote in
::

"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
.. .
In the channel between Santa Barbara and the Channel Islands the
swells can often be 20' to 30' feet without whitecaps!

Swells are given that name specifically because they are different from what
is generally considered a wave. In particular, they are usually farther
apart (and often higher).

It was the early '70s when one of my father's partners invited me for
a cruise on his 24' sail boat to Anacapa Island off the Ventura,
California coast. The trip over was pleasant, but the next morning on
the way back was really something. It was foggy with visibility about
1/4 mile. The sea was like I had never experienced before, and I had
recently crewed on a Newport Beach to Encinada race in which several
boats were dismasted/run aground, and we were healed over so far that
the Genoa was dragging in the water, but no one could get on deck to
reef it in. The swells in the channel were so high, that one moment
you were on the crest and couldn't see the water around the boat, and
the next moment you were in a trough so deep that you could only see
the sky directly overhead. I couldn't believe it! If one had broken
over us, that would have been it for sure. I have a much healthier
respect for the sea now.

Not that I have personal experience -- I try to stay away from waterways
with swells -- but my understanding is that landing a seaplane in swells is
similar to ditching procedures. That is, try to land parallel to the swell,
not across it.

That would have been the only practical way to land, but I doubt the
swells were far enough apart to prevent digging a wing in.

It's an entirely different technique from normal landings on waves.

Would you aim for a trough or a crest?

Yes, deep and sharp (highly angled) V's tend to cushion the landing
somewhat. Also helps if the are concave. On my plane and all the other
pontoon type aircraft that I know of, the first thing that will break
is a strut. The breakpoint varies, sometimes it's the vertical strut,
sometimes the horizontal (on my plane it is known to be the vertical
strut). The Lakes don't have struts and since the fuselage is also the
hull, it IS stronger and can take more. But.... when Lakes breakup
(there is a video), it is CATASTROPHIC, they really come apart. On my
aiplane, usually if one strut breaks you can limp in to shore. If both
front struts break, and the broken part doesn't settle on the fitting
(they break at the lower fitting), you are hosed. You will go over
frontwards, maybe not capsize, but the plane can no longer taxi, the
prop cuts the floats etc. Bad scene. But sometimes the broken piece
settles on the fitting and you can limp to shore even with 2 or more
struts broken. The biggest problem is judging just how big and steep a
wave you can land on, also depends on how close together they are.
There isn't any helpful info in the POH, that I've ever seen. And it IS
a problem. Especially with straight floats. They can't circle forever
and have to go ahead and land. In this respect the amphib gives you the
option of landing on land. So then pilots try and land close to shore
to take advantage of the lee of the trees and run into the associated
hazards of wind shear and landing close to shore, running into rocks
etc. If those waves look too big, and if in doubt, don't. Pretty easy
to break a strut. The hulls themselves seem to take it fine, seldom
dent a hull from landing on a wave, at least not that I have heard of
or seen. Probably possible though. You might just loosen rivets, I
suspect.

Landing on big swells in another matter altogether. I am talking about
waves that you see on a typical lake, maybe one foot high and 20 to 75'
apart. Ocean swells are MUCH further apart and can be much larger. But
even the big planes made to land on the ocean, Grummans and the other
Navy WWII one (can't remember its id), can get into waves and swells
they can't handle.

"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
...
Would you aim for a trough or a crest?

I would aim for the crest, for the same issue you already mentioned: the
risk of catching a wing.

I hope never to have to test the knowledge. Landing on swells seems
unreasonably tricky to me.

Pete