Jet Crew: Reverse Thrusters Failed in Chicago - Washington Post

"lynn" wrote
Not much room for errors at LGA, Reagan, or Orange County. Of course
with AA, CAL, DAL, LCC using LGA, and not SWA, you won't hear how
dangerous LGA is.

Hmmmm...I flew PanAm's shuttle B-727's into LGA and DCA a couple of
times a day for quite some time...never had a problem. Then again...
we former Naval Aviators received a bit better training in controlling
approach speed and touchdown point than the average pilot. :-)

Bob Moore

Was that before they restricted the landing flap setting?
How much difference did that make in distance? I was just a
very low time pilot when that was done, understand it was
because the 727 would get way behind the power curve, is
that true?


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

"Bob Moore" wrote in message
. 121...
| "lynn" wrote
| Not much room for errors at LGA, Reagan, or Orange
County. Of course
| with AA, CAL, DAL, LCC using LGA, and not SWA, you won't
hear how
| dangerous LGA is.
|
| Hmmmm...I flew PanAm's shuttle B-727's into LGA and DCA a
couple of
| times a day for quite some time...never had a problem.
Then again...
| we former Naval Aviators received a bit better training in
controlling
| approach speed and touchdown point than the average pilot.
:-)
|
| Bob Moore

Bob Moore wrote:
Hmmmm...I flew PanAm's shuttle B-727's into LGA and DCA a couple of
times a day for quite some time...never had a problem. Then again...
we former Naval Aviators received a bit better training in controlling
approach speed and touchdown point than the average pilot. :-)



Ah, you guys are pussies. The fellows at Midway didn't have a tailhook or net
to contain them. G




--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

VE

Flyingmonk wrote:

I thought I heard it was gonna be replaced. I don't remember where I
heard it from.

Probably an Internet rumor.

I haven't heard anything other than it's to be expanded with additional
runways.

--
John T
http://tknowlogy.com/TknoFlyer
http://www.pocketgear.com/products_s...veloperid=4415
Reduce spam. Use Sender Policy Framework: http://spf.pobox.com
____________________

"Jim Macklin" wrote in message

Yes, if you bounce, but if the approach speed is at 1.2-1.3
snip
The transport category jets don't have that problem because
they are designed to work differently from the typical GA
airplane..

yes, yes, yes......

anyone here [with appropriate experience] who's never had a 727 bounce on
them, please raise your hand. Sometimes you find that the airplane never
read the book.

"Jim Macklin" wrote
Was that before they restricted the landing flap setting?
How much difference did that make in distance? I was just a
very low time pilot when that was done, understand it was
because the 727 would get way behind the power curve, is
that true?

Any restriction in landing flap setting would have been due to
noise limitations, not performance.

Bob Moore

Jim Macklin wrote:

Was that before they restricted the landing flap setting?


The "quiet wing"?

"John Gaquin" wrote in message
...

"Jim Macklin" wrote in message

Yes, if you bounce, but if the approach speed is at 1.2-1.3
snip
The transport category jets don't have that problem because
they are designed to work differently from the typical GA
airplane..

yes, yes, yes......

anyone here [with appropriate experience] who's never had a 727 bounce on
them, please raise your hand. Sometimes you find that the airplane never
read the book.

There was a mechanic at my local flight school, he used to fly for the
airlines but lost his medical, he said the 727 was a bitch to land well.

----------------------------------
DW

If I remember correctly, the 727 had a series of landing
accidents because the full flap setting was about 50-60
degrees and if the pilot got too slow, they could not
recover. Maximum extension was reduced.
Looking on the Internet, I found a further limitation for
couple approaches with certain autopilots. Is there any
early 727 pilot out there with the facts on the first 727
and any changes in certification re flaps?


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

"Bob Moore" wrote in message
. 122...
| "Jim Macklin" wrote
| Was that before they restricted the landing flap
setting?
| How much difference did that make in distance? I was
just a
| very low time pilot when that was done, understand it
was
| because the 727 would get way behind the power curve, is
| that true?
|
| Any restriction in landing flap setting would have been
due to
| noise limitations, not performance.
|
| Bob Moore

"Jim Macklin" wrote

If I remember correctly, the 727 had a series of landing
accidents because the full flap setting was about 50-60
degrees and if the pilot got too slow, they could not
recover. Maximum extension was reduced.
Looking on the Internet, I found a further limitation for
couple approaches with certain autopilots. Is there any
early 727 pilot out there with the facts on the first 727
and any changes in certification re flaps?

Go back to your little airplanes Jim. The following article is
from the May-June 1965 issue of the Boeing Airliner. Is that
far enough back for you?

"Flap Angle
One of the factors having the greatest effects
on stall and initial buffet speeds is the angle the
flaps are set at during flight. The 727 flap angles
are given in trailing edge deflections of 0, 2, 5,
15, 25, 30 and 40 degrees. An increase in flap
angle increases the camber of the wing so that
it will produce the same lift at a lower speed than
a smaller flap angle setting would produce. The
effect of flap angle on initial buffet and stall can
be seen in Figures 2, 3, and 4 for flap angles 0,
15, and 40 degrees. The graphs also present the
points where the stick shaker operates and shows
the 7 percent margin required by Civil Air Regulations
for adequate stall warning. In all cases, except at 30
and 40 degree flaps, initial buffet will occur at a
speed higher than the 107 percent stall speed
requirement. However, initial buffet is never less
than 4 percent above stall speed even at 40° flaps.
Since the reference landing speed (Vref) is 130
percent of the stall speed, there is adequate speed
margin for landing."

Besides flying the line in the -200 series from 1986-
1991, I taught the -100 series back in 1977-78.

Yes, there were a couple of early landing accidents
attributed to excessive sink rates and the fix was to
change the technique that the pilots were using.

Would you like a lesson on the flap/speedbrake interaction
and the sink rates that it causes?

Bob Moore
ATP B-707 B-727 L-188
PanAm (retired)