Flying Thru Congested Areas

Sami
what you can do for long flights is if you dont have it, and since your
getting the 430 anyways you may want it, go to
http://www.garmin.com/products/gns430/
and download the simulator for the 430
you can put in your route direct, see how it looks and amend it from there
then put it in duats for wind, time and fuel consumption.

Its a good program to have and mess with so you can get familiar with the
430 anyways.
I have a garmin handheld 295, I do my route on it, then put it in duats,
then when I get to my plane I put the route from the 295 into my 430.

"O. Sami Saydjari" wrote:


To get great circle routing which is easy to put on a chart
out of DUATS, select the "direct routing for GPS/Loran".

Must have missed this option. Thanks.


I recommend purchasing a "low altitude enroute planning chart"
(or something like that) from your favorite chart shop.

Great idea.


In truth, for longer trips, we file VOR routing (not necessarily
airways) more and more often, because with judicious use of
direct segments it usually adds very little (maybe 1%) to the
trip and makes filing flight plans easier.


It makes filing flight plans easier than what? vivtor airway routes?

Seems a direct file is the easiest. I assume I can just file my route
as "KISW direct KHEF" (Wisconsin Rapids, WI to Manassas, VA).

In article ,
(Teacherjh) wrote:
Not all airways are covered by radar.

And you'd be surprised where. It's not just in the middle of nowhere.
Even around New York, there's a couple of spots near the edges of their
coverage where you fall off radar for a while while on airways.

If you're VFR on top, can ATC vector you?

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
hlink.net...

"Colin Kingsbury" wrote in message
ink.net...

Every so often in the Boston area when I'm flight following with
approach
control in class E they'll throw a vector my way, then a minute or two
later
say "resume own navigation."


They are wrong to do so.

Jeff,

I have already been playing with the 430 simulator to get familiar with
the controls. I never thought of using it for flight planning. Neat
idea! Would would be even cooler is if you could plan your trip on the
simulator, write to one of those small memory sticks, and then stick the
stick intot he Garmin 430 and have it download your plan. Perhaps, the
next generation will do that too.

-Sami

Jeff wrote:
Sami
what you can do for long flights is if you dont have it, and since your
getting the 430 anyways you may want it, go to
http://www.garmin.com/products/gns430/
and download the simulator for the 430
you can put in your route direct, see how it looks and amend it from there
then put it in duats for wind, time and fuel consumption.

Its a good program to have and mess with so you can get familiar with the
430 anyways.
I have a garmin handheld 295, I do my route on it, then put it in duats,
then when I get to my plane I put the route from the 295 into my 430.

"O. Sami Saydjari" wrote:


To get great circle routing which is easy to put on a chart
out of DUATS, select the "direct routing for GPS/Loran".

Must have missed this option. Thanks.


I recommend purchasing a "low altitude enroute planning chart"
(or something like that) from your favorite chart shop.

Great idea.


In truth, for longer trips, we file VOR routing (not necessarily
airways) more and more often, because with judicious use of
direct segments it usually adds very little (maybe 1%) to the
trip and makes filing flight plans easier.


It makes filing flight plans easier than what? vivtor airway routes?

Seems a direct file is the easiest. I assume I can just file my route
as "KISW direct KHEF" (Wisconsin Rapids, WI to Manassas, VA).

"O. Sami Saydjari" wrote in message ...

In truth, for longer trips, we file VOR routing (not necessarily
airways) more and more often, because with judicious use of
direct segments it usually adds very little (maybe 1%) to the
trip and makes filing flight plans easier.

It makes filing flight plans easier than what? vivtor airway routes?

Than filing GPS direct, but having to find ways to define any
detours we need to make or to define our destination if it isn't
in the computers of the ATC facilities along the route of flight.
(in case it wasn't clear, I was talking about filing low altitude
victor airways with some direct VOR segments, not about filing VOR
direct vs victor airways -- often moot point)

I'm also talking about IFR flights here, mostly.

Seems a direct file is the easiest. I assume I can just file my route
as "KISW direct KHEF" (Wisconsin Rapids, WI to Manassas, VA).

Sure you can. And given that I think Manassas, VA is a pretty large
airport, and that the midwest ATC computers don't seem to be hurting
as much for waypoint storage, you might even get to leave it at that
(unless of course traffic to Manassas is routinely put on a STAR).

But if you were going from, say, somewhere in Boston Center airspace
to Manassas, VA or to a smaller, more obscure airspace, chances are
excellent the Center computer won't have anything defining your route
and you'll be asked for the lat-longs of your destination or for a
nearby VOR. Sometimes you'll be asked for a VOR or airport defining
your route *inside the airspace of the center you're talking to*. It
ties up frequency and it's a hassle. Then there's the question of
what to do if you lose comms, or (more common) if ATC loses radar
coverage on you.

Perhaps I should reword what I said: in terms of flight planning
and filing the route with flight service, it's easier to say
"Point A direct Point B", but procedurally it seems Victor airways/
VOR routings sometimes work more smoothly in the system and don't add
significant distance to the flight -- so why not? is the attitude
we're developing.

Cheers,
Sydney

Craig Prouse writes:
Jeff wrote:

I live in the desert, If you go down there is not alot of places to land

I fly frequently to (for example) Laughlin, Lancaster WJF, and Palm
Springs. Also been to Tucson on occasion. Where out there in the
desert is NOT a place to land? It looks just like the pictures I've
been seeing from Mars.

Speaking of the pictures from Mars, I was thinking that NASA
could have saved a lot of money by sending someone to Death
Valley and taking a picture there.

"Craig Prouse"
I live in the desert, If you go down there is not alot of places to land

I fly frequently to (for example) Laughlin, Lancaster WJF, and Palm
Springs. Also been to Tucson on occasion. Where out there in the
desert is NOT a place to land? It looks just like the pictures I've
been seeing from Mars.

My western flying has been limited to glider racing out of Minden NV where
there is plenty of desert like terrain to the east. Also West Texas and
Montana.

Nothing I've ever seen anywhere was as unlandable as the 500km circle around
Minden. If it wasn't a road or dry lake bed, you were likely to be totaled
and possibly injured. The absence of agriculture has a lot to do with it.
I've flown around Tucson and saw very little if any landable terrain. If
man hasn't processed it, it's usually unlandable. That sparse desert
vegetation is more than tough.

"Snowbird"
But if you were going from, say, somewhere in Boston Center airspace
to Manassas, VA or to a smaller, more obscure airspace, chances are
excellent the Center computer won't have anything defining your route
and you'll be asked for the lat-longs of your destination or for a
nearby VOR. Sometimes you'll be asked for a VOR or airport defining
your route *inside the airspace of the center you're talking to*. It
ties up frequency and it's a hassle. Then there's the question of
what to do if you lose comms, or (more common) if ATC loses radar
coverage on you.

In my limited experience on the east coast, as long as the destination Lat
and Long are included (the Duats based stuff adds it automatically) the
direct route is generally accepted if I'm flying from something other than a
Class B or C airport with established procedures they like to follow. If
I'm flying to a B or C, I usually get cleared direct, then amended later if
again, they have some established procedures they like to follow - STARs or
undocumented

"Wyatt Emmerich" wrote in message ...
If you're VFR on top, can ATC vector you?

If you mean the on the IFR "VFR ON TOP" clearance, yes.
If purely VFR, not unless you're inside an airspace where ATC is
required to separate you.

"Wyatt Emmerich" wrote in message
...

If you're VFR on top, can ATC vector you?


FAA Order 7110.65 does not directly address that situation. It does say
that traffic advisories and safety alerts must be provided, and to apply
merging target
procedures to aircraft operating VFR-on-top. In other words, treat the
aircraft like a VFR operation. It seems logical to conclude then that ATC
can vector VFR-on-top aircraft in the same airspace where they can vector
VFR aircraft.