MoGas users: Ethanol replacing MTBE

To those who fly with STCs for motor fuel instead of avgas, is the
phase-out of MTBE affecting you?

Not here in Iowa. We've still got plenty of non-alcohol-contaminated
regular unleaded gasoline.

Which is truly ironic, no? All this ethanol nonsense originated here,
with all of our heavily subsidized corn (that no one knew what else to
do with) -- and we (of all people!) aren't mandating its use.

Only in America!

(And speaking of Iran, I don't know about nuking them, but I would
support disarming them -- now. The thought of them -- or anyone like
them -- having nuclear weapons is truly horrific, and makes the Cold
War era seem tame and predictable by comparision.)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
oups.com...

Not here in Iowa. We've still got plenty of non-alcohol-contaminated
regular unleaded gasoline.


Did you have to make any changes in your plane to start using automotive
fuel, or did you just start using it? Thanks.

Did you have to make any changes in your plane to start using automotive
fuel, or did you just start using it? Thanks.

No physical changes are required to use 87 octane unleaded mogas in our
O-540-powered Piper. It's just a paperwork thing. (You have to buy
the STC in order for it to be "legal" to burn mogas...)

Luckily, a previous owner (2 or 3 owners ago) paid Petersen for that
STC, so I've been reaping that benefit ever since.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, iA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Super Dave" wrote in message
nk.net...

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
oups.com...

Not here in Iowa. We've still got plenty of non-alcohol-contaminated
regular unleaded gasoline.


Did you have to make any changes in your plane to start using automotive
fuel, or did you just start using it? Thanks.


Well the Peterson STC for my Cessna involved putting a sticker next to each
gas cap stating that mogas above 91 R+M octane was legal in all
concentrations mixed with 100 octane avgas, and a small clamp that is
stamped with the STC# is attached to one of the pushrod tubes. That it.
Nothing more except the usual logbook and STC paperwork. This is on a
O235L2C in a C-152.

The last engine burned avgas for the first 500 hours, and mogas for the next
1500 hours. My problems with lead fouled plugs disappeared when I switched
to mogas. But since I put in a new engine 400 hours ago, mogas where I live
is tainted with alcohol, so.... back to burning leaded avgas......and
cleaning my lower plugs very regularly, no thanks to our govenator and the
feds.
John Severyn
@KLVK

"J. Severyn" wrote:

"Super Dave" wrote in message
nk.net...

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
oups.com...

Not here in Iowa. We've still got plenty of non-alcohol-contaminated
regular unleaded gasoline.


Did you have to make any changes in your plane to start using automotive
fuel, or did you just start using it? Thanks.


Well the Peterson STC for my Cessna involved putting a sticker next to each
gas cap stating that mogas above 91 R+M octane was legal in all
concentrations mixed with 100 octane avgas, and a small clamp that is
stamped with the STC# is attached to one of the pushrod tubes. That it.
Nothing more except the usual logbook and STC paperwork. This is on a
O235L2C in a C-152.

The last engine burned avgas for the first 500 hours, and mogas for the next
1500 hours. My problems with lead fouled plugs disappeared when I switched
to mogas. But since I put in a new engine 400 hours ago, mogas where I live
is tainted with alcohol, so.... back to burning leaded avgas......and
cleaning my lower plugs very regularly, no thanks to our govenator and the
feds.

Didn't AOPA say that a new unleaded avgas was going to save the day? 82UL or
something?

On Sat, 29 Apr 2006 10:35:33 -0400, John wrote:

The federal government hasn't banned
MTBE outright (some individual states have) but will not protect oil
companies from MTBE lawsuits so MTBE is being phased out by next week in
most places.

I think you have to make that *all* places. There may be some MTBE
still being pumped out of the ground, but nobody is going to
manufacture it because Congress did not renew the immunity to
liability that companies previously had. Nobody wants to repriese the
asbestos liability monster.

My local airport was so fussy about mogas that it found a dealer in
Maine that would deliver mogas without MTBE. I don't know what will
happen to the mogas pump. I understand that there's a huge problem
about ethanol in that it can't be stored for long periods of time or
sent over long distances because water will cause the ethanol to
separate out (funny, I thought that that was why we put alcohol in our
gasoline in New Hampshire, to get the water to meld with the fuel). I
don't see how ethanol mix can sit in the ground for months or a year
without suffering the same fate. The airport just doesn't sell that
much mogas.

Or maybe non-MTBE, non-ethanol gasoline will still be available in
Maine?


- all the best, Dan Ford

Wikipedia: the belief that 10,000 monkeys playing at
10,000 keyboards can create a reference work

Cub Driver opined

On Sat, 29 Apr 2006 10:35:33 -0400, John wrote:

The federal government hasn't banned
MTBE outright (some individual states have) but will not protect oil
companies from MTBE lawsuits so MTBE is being phased out by next week in
most places.

I think you have to make that *all* places. There may be some MTBE
still being pumped out of the ground, but nobody is going to
manufacture it because Congress did not renew the immunity to
liability that companies previously had. Nobody wants to repriese the
asbestos liability monster.

My local airport was so fussy about mogas that it found a dealer in
Maine that would deliver mogas without MTBE. I don't know what will
happen to the mogas pump. I understand that there's a huge problem
about ethanol in that it can't be stored for long periods of time or
sent over long distances because water will cause the ethanol to
separate out (funny, I thought that that was why we put alcohol in our
gasoline in New Hampshire, to get the water to meld with the fuel). I
don't see how ethanol mix can sit in the ground for months or a year
without suffering the same fate. The airport just doesn't sell that
much mogas.

Different alcohol.

Or maybe non-MTBE, non-ethanol gasoline will still be available in
Maine?
-ash
Cthulhu in 2005!
Why wait for nature?

Ash Wyllie wrote:

Cub Driver opined

On Sat, 29 Apr 2006 10:35:33 -0400, John wrote:

The federal government hasn't banned
MTBE outright (some individual states have) but will not protect oil
companies from MTBE lawsuits so MTBE is being phased out by next week in
most places.

I think you have to make that *all* places. There may be some MTBE
still being pumped out of the ground, but nobody is going to
manufacture it because Congress did not renew the immunity to
liability that companies previously had. Nobody wants to repriese the
asbestos liability monster.

My local airport was so fussy about mogas that it found a dealer in
Maine that would deliver mogas without MTBE. I don't know what will
happen to the mogas pump. I understand that there's a huge problem
about ethanol in that it can't be stored for long periods of time or
sent over long distances because water will cause the ethanol to
separate out (funny, I thought that that was why we put alcohol in our
gasoline in New Hampshire, to get the water to meld with the fuel). I
don't see how ethanol mix can sit in the ground for months or a year
without suffering the same fate. The airport just doesn't sell that
much mogas.

Different alcohol

Nope. Ethyl Alchol "absorbs" water that comes across. Actually the ethanol
get mixed in solution with the water. That is why it is used to remove water
from gas tanks.

Cub Driver wrote:

On Sat, 29 Apr 2006 10:35:33 -0400, John wrote:

The federal government hasn't banned
MTBE outright (some individual states have) but will not protect oil
companies from MTBE lawsuits so MTBE is being phased out by next week in
most places.

I think you have to make that *all* places. There may be some MTBE
still being pumped out of the ground, but nobody is going to
manufacture it because Congress did not renew the immunity to
liability that companies previously had. Nobody wants to repriese the
asbestos liability monster.

My local airport was so fussy about mogas that it found a dealer in
Maine that would deliver mogas without MTBE. I don't know what will
happen to the mogas pump. I understand that there's a huge problem
about ethanol in that it can't be stored for long periods of time or
sent over long distances because water will cause the ethanol to
separate out (funny, I thought that that was why we put alcohol in our
gasoline in New Hampshire, to get the water to meld with the fuel).

It's the same principle, but ethanol will keep picking up water it comes
across. A pipeline may have small amounts of water here and there but this
can get added again and again over long distances. The fuel becomes less and
less useable as more and more water is added, because obviously the water
doesn't contain any useable energy and it takes energy to evaporate that
water in a cylinder.

When you add alcohol to remove water (ice) from a gas tank, there is a very
limited amount of water (hopefully) so the effects of that water aren't
great, especially compared to ice blocking your fuel line.


I
don't see how ethanol mix can sit in the ground for months or a year
without suffering the same fate. The airport just doesn't sell that
much mogas.

Or maybe non-MTBE, non-ethanol gasoline will still be available in
Maine?

Time will tell.

I've been using mogas in my Tripacer for 6 years now, but we've recently
(MA) switched to ethanol. I actually had to siphon my tanks after putting in
what I thought was MTBE gas. This change along with the rapidly rising fuel
costs have me seriously considering selling the plane-something I really
don't want to do.

But here I am on a beautiful Sunday morning typing away instead of flying
away. This is a real double whammy for me. Either the rising prices OR the
ethanol thing I could probably absorb, but both together is a real killer.

mike

----- Original Message -----
From: "John"
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2006 10:35 AM
Subject: MoGas users: Ethanol replacing MTBE


To those who fly with STCs for motor fuel instead of avgas, is the
phase-out of MTBE affecting you?

"John" wrote in message ...
To those who fly with STCs for motor fuel instead of avgas, is the
phase-out of MTBE affecting you?