No more "Left Downwind"?

In article ,
Larry Dighera wrote:

On the other hand, if the FAA presenter was a true spokesman for
official policy, perhaps his admission, that the FAA considers the
congestion on the shared CFAF frequencies a safety concern, is
evidence that the FAA is powerless to petition the FCC for the
additional CTAF frequencies necessary to meet its federal mandate* to
insure safe skies.

but that hasn't stopped them from adding all those AWOS frequencies. :-/

--
Bob Noel
Looking for a sig the
lawyers will hate

On 1 Sep 2006 23:59:27 -0700, "cjcampbell"
wrote in
.com:

I must have missed something, not flying for awhile. How was "Any other
traffic please advise" specifically prohibited?

It was reported recently in this newsgroup:



From: Kris Kortokrax
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
Message-ID:
Subject: Any traffic please advise
Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 15:05:57 GMT

Just received the following from the FAA Designee Notification system.
Checked out the AIM on the FAA web site and the wording is included.

Kris

--------------------------------------------------------

The inane practice of using the phrase “any traffic please advise” has
become so wide spread that the FAA has finally included a “do not do
this” in the latest version of the AIM. You will find the following
quote at paragraph 4-1-9 G 1 in the latest version of the AIM:

Self-announce is a procedure whereby pilots broadcast their position
or intended flight activity or ground operation on the designated
CTAF. This procedure is used primarily at airports which do not have
an FSS on the airport. The self-announce procedure should also be used
if a pilot is unable to communicate with the FSS on the designated
CTAF. Pilots stating, "Traffic in the area, please advise" is not a
recognized Self-Announce Position and/or Intention phrase and should
not be used under any condition.

If you do not have a current copy of the AIM, you can reference one
online at:

http://www.faa.gov/ATPUBS/AIM/

Bob Linenweber, ASI
314-890-4864


OPS DESIGNEE NOTIFICATION SYSTEM

"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" wrote:


I'm with you. In fact, I start and finish my transmission with the
airport name just because I know how *I* am with radio transmissions. I
tend to float along not paying real attention and then it's "where did he
say he was?". So I'll transmit "Rock Hill traffic, Cessna 32Q on left
downwind for runway zero two, Rock Hill." It only takes a split second
more but I figure it helps, not hurts.

Hear, hear!


--
Dan
C172RG at BFM

left is standard.. right traffic is on the chart with annotations for the
airport along with the airport elevation, lighting, runway length and
frequency.. as in
JEAN (0L7)
2832 *L 46 122.9
RP 2R 20R
or
Sky Ranch (3L2)
2599 - 33 123.0
RP 12

Interesting. I have never seen it.

Jay Honeck wrote:

We attended a safety seminar on Tuesday during which the FAA presenter
(who was otherwise outstanding) went over a list of unapproved radio
calls. (Number one being, of course, the despised and now-specifically
prohibited "Any other traffic please advise...")

To our surprise, he claimed that the common phraseology "Iowa City
Traffic, N56993 entering left downwind for Runway 25, Iowa City" is
incorrect. In short, he stated that you should say "Iowa City
Traffic, N56993 entering downwind for Runway 25, Iowa City", omitting
the word "left".

In his opinion (and, apparently, the FAA's), saying "left downwind" is
redundant, since everyone should know that the pattern is left (or
right, if appropriate) hand traffic. In high traffic areas, the FAA
thinks that omitting this single word will open the over-crowded unicom
frequencies so that other pilots can squeeze a word in.

Mary and I (and several other pilots) kept quiet during the
presentation, but strongly disagree with him on this topic. IMHO,
saying "left downwind" is clear, concise, and -- most importantly --
clarifies which side of the airport you're on. To assume that everyone
knows whether the pattern is left (or right) is, in my experience,
naive.

What do you guys think?

I agree with them technically, but think that practically it is better
to add the left or right. :-)

Matt

In article
,
john smith wrote:

In article YQ5Kg.1700$8J2.666@fed1read11,
"BTIZ" wrote:

"Every "local" pilot may know the traffic is left or right.."
But how many transients do not (1) check the charting (2) look it up in the
AFD or (3) pay attention to what everyone else is doing.

How is right or left traffic depicted on a Sectional Chart?

Look carefully at an uncontrolled airport with right traffic on a
sectional. You'll see something like "RP 16", meaning "Right Pattern on
runway 16". Any runways not mentioned have left traffic.

This is a new thing. The FAA just introduced it about, oh, 3 or 4 years
ago?

Wizard of Draws wrote:

On 9/1/06 10:21 PM, in article
, "Peter R."
wrote:


Wizard of Draws wrote:


I think pilots are the most freakin' anal SOBs on the planet.

And your point is?


They very often lose sight of the forest for the trees.
Is a _single word_ truly worth the bandwidth and time that will be used to
debate whether it's proper to use it?

Then why did you then make a comment that will likely generate even more
wasted bandwidth for a topic far less useful than discussing proper
self-announcement phraseology?

Matt

In article ,
B A R R Y wrote:

And we all know everyone is flying with current charts. G

Months after OXC got a tower, several pilots flew right in and landed!

I'm not at all surprised. That was a couple of years ago, and it still
feels strange talking to the tower there :-)

The charting was kind of funky at first, as I remember. It showed up as an
uncontrolled airport (i.e. magenta), with a CDAS around it. The next
edition of the chart showed it in blue.

I'm with you. In fact, I start and finish my transmission with the
airport name just because I know how *I* am with radio transmissions. I
tend to float along not paying real attention and then it's "where did he
say he was?". So I'll transmit "Rock Hill traffic, Cessna 32Q on left
downwind for runway zero two, Rock Hill." It only takes a split second
more but I figure it helps, not hurts.

Hear, hear!

That's not just common sense -- it's also the FAA-approved phraseology.
It drives me nuts when people drop the last mention of their
location, cuz -- like you -- I often don't catch the first couple of
words of their transmission.

And, of course, there are those who start talking BEFORE they push the
button, and inadvertently cut off their first few syllables -- so the
final mention of their whereabouts is often their ONLY mention of their
whereabouts.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

On the other hand, if the FAA presenter was a true spokesman for
official policy, perhaps his admission, that the FAA considers the
congestion on the shared CFAF frequencies a safety concern, is
evidence that the FAA is powerless to petition the FCC for the
additional CTAF frequencies necessary to meet its federal mandate* to
insure safe skies.

but that hasn't stopped them from adding all those AWOS frequencies. :-/

This is a mystery to me. Out here in Iowa we rarely have a problem
with frequency congestion, but back in my home stomping grounds,
between Milwaukee and Chicago, there were days when 122.8 was nothing
but a high-pitched squeal.

In the year 2006, for airmen to still be limited to a tiny hand-full of
unicom frequencies seems *almost* as stupid as still suffering with
painfully abbreviated METARs and TAFs.

Ah, progress. It moves ever-so-slowly in the FAA.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"