Todays Cost of getting a PPL

"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
news
Judah writes:

It's a rich man's hobby.

No it's not. It's a hobby for people who know how to manage the money they
have.
I'm married, with 2 kids. We have only 1 income, which is by no means large.
I pay rent, have personal load and credit card debt, and no, repeat NO
savings what-soever, yet I am still able to fly.
It's all about budgeting what resources you do have, and as long as you are
prepared to for-go a lesson should something urgent come up that demands the
funds be spent on it, anyone can do it.
Oz/Crash Lander

Mxsmanic wrote in
news
Judah writes:

But in the end, he couldn't justify it because the cost was more than he
could bear.

It's a rich man's hobby.

I don't think so. I'm not rich, neither are most of the people who I know
who are pilots. Some are, but most of the truly rich pilots that I know
don't fly themselves much, if at all. They can afford to hire someone else
to fly for them... Most of the truly rich people that I know don't have
Pilot certificates.

Someone who is so poor as to have no discretionary income whatsoever, and
can't afford anything but his own basic needs, may not be likely to learn
to fly, unless he is looking to become an Airline Pilot someday or has some
other justification.

In a major metro area (ie: NYC area) it costs about $12k to learn to fly.
There are financial programs in place that allow you to finance that over a
5 or 7 year term. If someone really wants to learn how to fly, there are
avenues to make it achievable even for those with modest incomes.

But by the same token, some people can't afford to spend $12k over 5 years
on a used car. Does that make driving a rich man's hobby as well? Some
people can't afford to take a $5,000 vacation to Disney World or the
Bahamas, either. Does that make vacationing a rich man's hobby?

You have claimed that your income level is extremely low. Can you afford a
$12,000 car? Can you afford a $5,000 vacation?

After reading John's (BucFan) posting and the revelation that he spent
$12,500 to get his PPL, I have to wonder how representative this is?
It certainly is daunting, to say the least.

No offense to John (whom I applaud for his persistence -- something few
student pilots show), but he was fleeced. There is no way a PPL has
to cost that much, and it does GA an injustice to publicize his unusual
experience.

Stretching out his lessons over 2+ years was the key to his financial
over-expenditure. Mary and I each finished up in 4+ months, and spent
exponentially less as a result. Something in the range of $3500, as I
recall, a bit more for Mary thanks to inflation.

The rule of thumb really is: If you want to cost-effectively obtain
your PPL, treat it like a semester of college. Fly 3 days per week
(Mon/Wed/Fri) and study the other two (Tue/Thu), or wait until you can
-- OR accept the fact that you're going to spend more money, perhaps a
lot more.

Otherwise, you're just having fun *and* helping the CFI make his car
payment.

And there's nothing wrong with that -- but then don't come back here
and scare the bejeesus out of lurkers by trumpeting that it now costs
5-figures to get your Private. Cuz it doesn't.

Mary and I both obtained our PPLs while working full-time, and with
little kids underfoot -- so it CAN be done. You've just got to want it
badly enough.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Jay Honeck writes:

The rule of thumb really is: If you want to cost-effectively obtain
your PPL, treat it like a semester of college. Fly 3 days per week
(Mon/Wed/Fri) and study the other two (Tue/Thu), or wait until you can ...

So all you have to do is quit your job, or wait until you're 70 years
old. Simple. And make sure you have a few thousand dollars in your
checking account before you quit, so you can pay for the license.

Mary and I both obtained our PPLs while working full-time, and with
little kids underfoot -- so it CAN be done. You've just got to want it
badly enough.

If you have to "want it badly enough," that implies that something
else must be sacrificed. If it's not money (because you say that you
don't need five figures to do it), then what are you giving up to get
a license at a reasonable cost and in a reasonable time?

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

The rule of thumb really is: If you want to cost-effectively obtain
your PPL, treat it like a semester of college. Fly 3 days per week
(Mon/Wed/Fri) and study the other two (Tue/Thu), or wait until you can ...

So all you have to do is quit your job, or wait until you're 70 years
old. Simple. And make sure you have a few thousand dollars in your
checking account before you quit, so you can pay for the license.

The money part is a given -- there's nothing you can do to change that.
Same with golfing, boating, RV'ing, or any other leisure activity --
you gotta pay to play. You're gonna need a thousand bucks in the bank
to get started, and it usually (if you trust the FBO) makes sense to
pay for lessons in $500 increments, since many places give you a
significant discount if you do it that way.

The time part is entirely up to you. I was a working dad, and I got up
at 0-dark-thirty every morning, drove 45 minutes one-way (in the
winter, in Wisconsin) to the airport where my CFI was based (not the
local airport), flew for an hour, and then drove in to work.

There were days when the weather would be pea-soup fog by the time I
got there, and we would have to scrub. There were other days where it
was crap where I was, but perfect at the airport, which was inland from
Lake Michigan quite a ways. And the cold was brutal.

It was hard -- sometimes very hard -- to find the time to do it,
between the demands of work and family, but I had a finite amount of
money and knew that if I didn't do it then, I'd probably never have the
chance again. I had spent 35 years on the ground, looking up, and it
was literally "now or never".

Which is why I encourage every young person I meet to learn to fly NOW,
damn the expense. Money is replaceable -- time is not. I now feel
that my first 35 years on this earth were wasted, wanting to fly but
not being able to find my way aloft. I've done my best to make up for
lost time in the interceding 12 years, but I can never, EVER buy those
35 years (well, okay, 18, after the minimum PPL age of 17) back.

I don't know how old you are, Manic, but if you want to fly don't wait.
The papers are full of young people in the obituaries every day.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Jay Honeck writes:

The money part is a given -- there's nothing you can do to change that.

Well, the money part is the most overwhelming obstacle. If you could
learn to fly in 60 hours of training for $300, people would be lining
up to do so.

Same with golfing, boating, RV'ing, or any other leisure activity --
you gotta pay to play.

Yes, but some hobbies are more expensive than others. Painting and
writing are quite inexpensive, especially writing, and thus accessible
to all. Golf, yachting, sailing, and flying are very expensive
hobbies, reserved to the wealthy. Hobbies that require a certain
minimum time investment (including flying) up front and/or on a
regular basis are even more impractical. One must then be rich and
idle at the same time.

Which is why I encourage every young person I meet to learn to fly NOW,
damn the expense. Money is replaceable -- time is not.

I agree ... but just finding the money up front is difficult. And
young people are far less likely to have spare money than older
people.

I now feel
that my first 35 years on this earth were wasted, wanting to fly but
not being able to find my way aloft. I've done my best to make up for
lost time in the interceding 12 years, but I can never, EVER buy those
35 years (well, okay, 18, after the minimum PPL age of 17) back.

At least you eventually did it.

I don't know how old you are, Manic, but if you want to fly don't wait.
The papers are full of young people in the obituaries every day.

I have no money, and no time.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

Mxsmanic wrote:

Well, the money part is the most overwhelming obstacle. If you could
learn to fly in 60 hours of training for $300, people would be lining
up to do so.

Things obtained for little or no money or effort are likewise valued little.

I have no money, and no time.

When I learned to fly, I had no time, and EXACTLY the amount of money
needed to get my PPL -- no more, no less. I actually drained my
savings account the same week that I took my checkride.

There was no money in the budget for flying. None. We flew when we
could based solely on bonus commission checks from my job, and
birthday/Christmas gifts. (My mom knew that all I wanted was "flight
time" for any gifts...)

This proved to be a great incentive to succeed, since I knew that I
could not fly without more income. That driving desire to get (and
remain) airborne has propelled me to start three successful businesses
-- something I probably would not have done without the incentive of
flight.

Once again proving the old adage: "If you want something badly enough,
you will find a way..."
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...

I agree ... but just finding the money up front is difficult. And
young people are far less likely to have spare money than older
people.

This makes no sense to me. Pick any group of 30 'young people'. Guaranteed
at least 28 of them will have an iPod, a car with a stereo in it that cost
about $400 more than it's worth, $400 running shoes, the latest computer
with all the bells and whistles etc, etc.
Most young people have far too much disposable cash, which is half the
problem! They buy whatever they want, and have different priorities. They
have never learned to budget, and appreciate what money can buy them. If one
truly wants to fly, he can.
You make financial decisions every day. Do I buy the brand name ice cream,
or the generic brand ice cream. The generic brand may save a few cents, and
all those cents add up, but then you must ask yourself, "Do I really need
ice cream?".
For me? I'd gladly sacrifice ice cream and all the other little un-necessary
luxuries we take for granted if it will give me another hour in the sky.
How much was your flight simulator? About an hour in flight training I'd
guess! What about the computer system you run it on? Probably just under one
third of the cost of a PPL I'd reakon.
It's all about priorities and managing what you have.
Oz/Crash Lander

Mxsmanic wrote:
Jay Honeck writes:

Same with golfing, boating, RV'ing, or any other leisure activity --
you gotta pay to play.

Yes, but some hobbies are more expensive than others. Painting and
writing are quite inexpensive, especially writing, and thus accessible
to all. Golf, yachting, sailing, and flying are very expensive
hobbies, reserved to the wealthy.

Golf - local city courses are relatively inexpensive.
Yachting & sailing - depends on the size of your boat. I used
to sail all the time. A windsurfer is relatively inexpensive,
small sailboats, the same. Powered ski boat for the lake? Again,
less expensive than a car.

Again, the term "wealth" is qualitative and not easily defined. What
you consider "wealthy" is relative to your experience and situation.

I have no money, and no time.

But you certainly have the money to pay for internet access, and
certainly have the time to continue facetious arguments and
incessant postings.