Will the new government have any effect on GA?

| 4. Letting people carry weapons on an airliner has proven
to be a "bad
| thing." I believe this restriction is in the "common
sense" category.
|
Mr. Dillon, Mr. Dillon, the outlaws are going to rob the
stage when it gets out of town, what should we do?
Take the guns away from the passengers to avoid violence.


A very few people ever carried weapons on airliners, an even
smaller number hijacked airplanes to Cuba. The government
banned guns on airliners. That ban made 9/11 easy and
possible since any weapon, even box cutters [which were
legal at the time] to take over the airplane.

If weapons, per se were evil, why does having an armed air
marshal work?



"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
ps.com...
| What rights have I lost due to anything done in the War
on Terror?
|
| The right to fly over your nation's capital. The right
to fly past the
| Space Shuttle when it is not being launched. The right
to carry Napa
| and Sonoma wine home in your carry-on baggage. The
right to carry a
| swiss army knife on an airliner (or anywhere, and forget
about it when
| you board an airliner).
|
| Let's take the silly ones first:
|
| 1. I recently flew over Washington, DC. It was
bone-simple.
|
| 2. With only a few airworthy space shuttles left -- and a
political
| climate that makes replacing them impossible -- I see
nothing wrong
| with restricting the airspace around Cape Canaveral.
|
| 3. I'm sure I can buy wine anywhere.
|
| 4. Letting people carry weapons on an airliner has proven
to be a "bad
| thing." I believe this restriction is in the "common
sense" category.
|
| The right to read what you want in a public
| library without disclosing that action to the
government. The right to
| be free in one's homes, telephones, computers, internet,
and private
| life from search. The right to face your accusers and
know the charges
| against you.
|
| Now on to the meatier examples:
|
| 1. The library rule will be overturned. Luckily, it's so
unworkable,
| in practice, that it is not used.
|
| 2. I hadn't heard that US citizens could have their homes
searched
| without due process. Are you referring to wire tapping
overseas phone
| calls?
|
| 3. I hadn't head that US citizens could be held without
charges being
| brought.
| --
| Jay Honeck
| Iowa City, IA
| Pathfinder N56993
| www.AlexisParkInn.com
| "Your Aviation Destination"
|

On 14 Nov 2006 07:59:14 -0800, "Jay Honeck"
wrote:

4. Letting people carry weapons on an airliner has proven to be a "bad
thing." I believe this restriction is in the "common sense" category.

No, letting only SOME people carry weapons on airliners has proven a
bad thing, letting EVERYONE go armed has not.

Don

DonSideB

Build a man a fire and you keep him warm for a day,
Set a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life.

Newps writes:

Nice answer. You made the allegation now support it. And I have talked
to the Secret Service, two weeks ago when they were up in the tower for
Bush's arrival and two weeks before that for Cheneys arrival. You are
full of crap.

You don't know what you've lost until it's gone, and sometimes even
then it takes a while to discover it. But you can't get it back.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

Mxsmanic wrote:
Newps writes:


Nice answer. You made the allegation now support it. And I have talked
to the Secret Service, two weeks ago when they were up in the tower for
Bush's arrival and two weeks before that for Cheneys arrival. You are
full of crap.


You don't know what you've lost until it's gone, and sometimes even
then it takes a while to discover it. But you can't get it back.

So a non answer. Beautiful. Got any other drivel you'd like to spew?

Let's take the silly ones first:

No freedoms are silly when they are taken away.

1. I recently flew over Washington, DC. It was bone-simple.

Did you really? I just got off the phone with the Leesburg FSS to check
my info. They tell me that ABSOLUTELY NO VFR flight is permitted in the
FRZ, except for based aircraft whose pilots have undergone a background
check, received a PIN number for that flight, received permission for
conducting that flight, and have previously visited the airport (there's
one in particular, but I didn't ask) IN PERSON to make application,
which means driving in the first time. This is not "bone simple".

IFR flight is not permitted either, unless one is going into National,
and in that case you must land outside the ADIZ and pick up an armed
flight marshall who will fly aboard your aircraft while you fly into the
FRZ.

I remember you made a big deal out of going to Dulles, for a special
event where the way was paved for you. But that's not the same as
flying over the Nation's Capital. Washington DC is =inside= the FRZ.

So, tell me. What exactly =did= you do?

2. With only a few airworthy space shuttles left -- and a political
climate that makes replacing them impossible -- I see nothing wrong
with restricting the airspace around Cape Canaveral.

Why? Perhaps a little one mile ring to keep people who can't maneuver
an airplane with that degree of precision away, but if you think this
keeps intentional harm away from the complex, that is laughable.

3. I'm sure I can buy wine anywhere.

So what? The freedom to carry =my= wine in =my= carry-on is not a silly
freedom. Besides, many of the wines one can get in California are not
available anywhere else. There just isn't enough made. I don't want
the government telling me what wine I can drink, which is what
effectively happens.

I guess you wouldn't understand though. You drink beer.

The wine rule came about because wine is a liquid, and somebody tried to
use liquid explosive. Ever played with powdered sugar around a heat
source?

4. Letting people carry weapons on an airliner has proven to be a "bad
thing." I believe this restriction is in the "common sense" category.

People carrying weapons is not a Bad Thing. It is only when Bad people
carry weapons where Good people can't that it's a Bad Thing. And a
Swiss Army Knife is not a weapon, except in the sense that anything can
be used as one (including a pencil).

The PA airliner didn't make it to the White House because Good People
fought the terrorists back. The solution is to keep weapons away from
Good People. Hmmm. Common sense?

Now on to the meatier examples:
1. The library rule will be overturned. Luckily, it's so unworkable,
in practice, that it is not used.

Really? You must get more use out of your time machine than you do out
of the Pathfinder. I don't see any reason for the government to
overturn the library rule, and it's the government that made it. All
they have to do is keep quiet about it. As it is, most people aren't
aware of it, and many that are are of the opinion that "if you aren't
reading anything bad, you have nothing to worry about."

How do you know that the library rule is not used? Part of the rule is
that the librarians are NOT ALLOWED TO SAY when it's been used.

2. I hadn't heard that US citizens could have their homes searched
without due process. Are you referring to wire tapping overseas phone
calls?

Anybody can have their homes searched without due process if the feds
use the magic words "national security". I'm also referring to aspects
of "home" that are not geographical, such as the contents of your hard
drive (which may be seized and searched if you try to bring a laptop on
an airliner), the expanded wiretapping and internet tapping
surveillance, and other tramplings of what we once considered private.
These measures are being pushed through without much resistance, in the
name of National Security. Each one passed makes it easier to pass the
next one.

3. I hadn't head that US citizens could be held without charges being
brought.

If the charges are based on National Security, the government could deem
them too secret to present to you. I have no first-hand experience with
this, but I am no longer convinced that we are not all vulnerable to it.

We're going to win the war on terrorism just like we won the war on drugs.

Jose
--
"Never trust anything that can think for itself, if you can't see where
it keeps its brain." (chapter 10 of book 3 - Harry Potter).
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

On Nov 13, 2:49 am, "Jim Macklin"
wrote:

Iran has won, why
would they change now?

Iran is in its present position of strength (but not by a long shot
could it be called a winning position) because the Neocons decided to
go after a man and a country that presented no real threat to the US.
The idea that Saddam Hussein (an atheist socialist!) could have even
wanted to help Osama bin Laden (a religious fanatic) is a joke that
only the Neocons didn't get. Ironic, but true.

They ignored Iran (already presenting a threat - its nuclear program is
not new) and North Korea (ditto), and put 90% of the US military's
might into Iraq (with disastrous consequences for all involved, but
that's another story). Any 2nd-amendment-supporting red-blooded
Americans who supported the invasion and occupation of Iraq need to
re-examine their (no doubt default) patriotism, because going into Iraq
was _not_ in the best interests of this country - economic, diplomatic,
military, or otherwise. We've succeeded in weakening our military
position in the world, we've alienated allies, we've ****ed the
national budget, and we've left ourselves exposed to nuclear threats
from countries that we could've taken care of in a second if we hadn't
wasted all that time, money, and human life in Iraq.

Could bin Laden have wished for anything more? If what the Neocons have
done isn't treason, then nothing is. George Bush may as well have taken
a list of demands from bin Laden, bowed his head, and said, "It shall
be done."

Terrorism has won, the world will become very dangerous and
soon we will have a real world war being fought with nuclear
weapons and chemicals.

That's not true - terrorism hasn't won. What would it mean for
terrorism to win, anyway? True, bin Laden has played Bush, the Neocons,
and the right in general like a piano and gotten much of what he
wanted. But you can't argue that you haven't lost any rights and say
terrorism has won - it's a contradiction. You've got most of your
rights, and you're right in believing that the fact that you're a white
male protects you from the consequences of the rights you are losing.
Unless a white male does something really stupid, like get caught
fighting alongside the Taliban, there's no way the US government will
lock him up and throw away the key. Only a major change will threaten
your inalienable right as a white male to be given preferential
treatment by the US govt. But you're arguing that a major change is
happening.

So maybe you _should_ be worried.

Marc

"Jose" wrote in message
news
Let's take the silly ones first:

No freedoms are silly when they are taken away.

1. I recently flew over Washington, DC. It was bone-simple.

Did you really? I just got off the phone with the Leesburg FSS to check my
info. They tell me that ABSOLUTELY NO VFR flight is permitted in the FRZ,
except for based aircraft whose pilots have undergone a background check,
received a PIN number for that flight, received permission for conducting
that flight, and have previously visited the airport (there's one in
particular, but I didn't ask) IN PERSON to make application, which means
driving in the first time. This is not "bone simple".

IFR flight is not permitted either, unless one is going into National, and
in that case you must land outside the ADIZ and pick up an armed flight
marshall who will fly aboard your aircraft while you fly into the FRZ.

I remember you made a big deal out of going to Dulles, for a special event
where the way was paved for you. But that's not the same as flying over
the Nation's Capital. Washington DC is =inside= the FRZ.


SNIP

AFAIK, the Capitol and the White House have always been under a P-XXXX
designation, have they not?

Jay Beckman
PP-ASEL
Chandler, AZ

AFAIK, the Capitol and the White House have always been under a P-XXXX
designation, have they not?

Yes, there are teeny prohibited areas around those two buildings. The
rest of our Captal was unencubered until we got the Class Bravo. Even
then, all it required was a clearance, just like around any large airport.

The FRZ is thirty miles across, and covers the entire city.

Jose
--
"Never trust anything that can think for itself, if you can't see where
it keeps its brain." (chapter 10 of book 3 - Harry Potter).
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

"Jose" wrote in message
om...
AFAIK, the Capitol and the White House have always been under a P-XXXX
designation, have they not?

Yes, there are teeny prohibited areas around those two buildings. The
rest of our Captal was unencubered until we got the Class Bravo. Even
then, all it required was a clearance, just like around any large airport.

The FRZ is thirty miles across, and covers the entire city.

Jose

Point made...

Jay B

I remember you made a big deal out of going to Dulles, for a special
event where the way was paved for you. But that's not the same as
flying over the Nation's Capital. Washington DC is =inside= the FRZ.

Well, the way into the Washington ADIZ wasn't paved for us -- we had to
do everything by the book. It took ten minutes, tops, and was no more
difficult than filing any other kind of flight plan.

Now, if you're talking about flying over the White House or the
National Mall, well, duh.

2. With only a few airworthy space shuttles left -- and a political
climate that makes replacing them impossible -- I see nothing wrong
with restricting the airspace around Cape Canaveral.

Why? Perhaps a little one mile ring to keep people who can't maneuver
an airplane with that degree of precision away, but if you think this
keeps intentional harm away from the complex, that is laughable.

You don't think it's appropriate to have a no-fly zone around the
Kennedy Space Center? Tell me, Jose, where DO you think a no-fly zone
is appropriate?

3. I'm sure I can buy wine anywhere.

So what? The freedom to carry =my= wine in =my= carry-on is not a silly
freedom.

Yes, it is. And it's just another impetus to spur the growth of GA, in
any case.

Besides, many of the wines one can get in California are not
available anywhere else. There just isn't enough made. I don't want
the government telling me what wine I can drink, which is what
effectively happens.

And if a terrorist smuggles four "bottles" of explosives on the plane,
killing everyone on board, well, that's just acceptable collateral
damage? After all, your merlot was an excellent year!

Gimme a break.

I guess you wouldn't understand though. You drink beer.

Exactly. ;-)

The wine rule came about because wine is a liquid, and somebody tried to
use liquid explosive. Ever played with powdered sugar around a heat
source?

Not recently.

4. Letting people carry weapons on an airliner has proven to be a "bad
thing." I believe this restriction is in the "common sense" category.

People carrying weapons is not a Bad Thing. It is only when Bad people
carry weapons where Good people can't that it's a Bad Thing. And a
Swiss Army Knife is not a weapon, except in the sense that anything can
be used as one (including a pencil).

The PA airliner didn't make it to the White House because Good People
fought the terrorists back. The solution is to keep weapons away from
Good People. Hmmm. Common sense?

No, the solution is to make all airline passengers fly naked. I'd fly
on THAT airline.

;-)

1. The library rule will be overturned. Luckily, it's so unworkable,
in practice, that it is not used.

Really? You must get more use out of your time machine than you do out
of the Pathfinder. I don't see any reason for the government to
overturn the library rule, and it's the government that made it. All
they have to do is keep quiet about it. As it is, most people aren't
aware of it, and many that are are of the opinion that "if you aren't
reading anything bad, you have nothing to worry about."

How do you know that the library rule is not used? Part of the rule is
that the librarians are NOT ALLOWED TO SAY when it's been used.

Because the librarians around here protested it when it first was
announced, and declared that it would not be followed. Remember, Iowa
City has gone so far as to declare itself to be a "Nuclear Weapons-Free
Zone", and is the only city in America to elect a card-carrying member
of the communist party.

No one rounded up the librarians when they said that, and no one will.
It's a dumb, unenforceable, unworkable law, that will fall by the
wayside like the 200,000 other stupid laws we've got on the books that
no one obeys.

2. I hadn't heard that US citizens could have their homes searched
without due process. Are you referring to wire tapping overseas phone
calls?

Anybody can have their homes searched without due process if the feds
use the magic words "national security". I'm also referring to aspects
of "home" that are not geographical, such as the contents of your hard
drive (which may be seized and searched if you try to bring a laptop on
an airliner), the expanded wiretapping and internet tapping
surveillance, and other tramplings of what we once considered private.
These measures are being pushed through without much resistance, in the
name of National Security. Each one passed makes it easier to pass the
next one.

3. I hadn't head that US citizens could be held without charges being
brought.

If the charges are based on National Security, the government could deem
them too secret to present to you. I have no first-hand experience with
this, but I am no longer convinced that we are not all vulnerable to it.

We're going to win the war on terrorism just like we won the war on drugs.

You may be right, but I haven't heard any alternative responses that
make any more sense.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"