Class D / Class C precedence

Judah wrote in
:

B A R R Y wrote in
:

On Sat, 25 Nov 2006 23:59:37 -0500, "Morgans"
wrote:


Transponders are required for all registered aircraft, if they were
manufactured with an electrical system.

I respectfully ask for the FAR where that is written.

http://masl.to/?P28B1534E

FAR 91.215 section (b) paragraph (5)

(b) All airspace. Unless otherwise authorized or directed by ATC, no
person may operate an aircraft in the airspace described in paragraphs
(b)(1) through (b)(5) of this section, unless that aircraft is equipped
with an operable coded radar beacon transponder having either Mode 3/A
4096 code capability, replying to Mode 3/A interrogations with the code
specified by ATC, or a Mode S capability, replying to Mode 3/A
interrogations with the code specified by ATC and intermode and Mode S
interrogations in accordance with the applicable provisions specified in
TSO C–112, and that aircraft is equipped with automatic pressure
altitude reporting equipment having a Mode C capability that
automatically replies to Mode C interrogations by transmitting pressure
altitude information in 100-foot increments. This requirement applies—

...

(5) All aircraft except any aircraft which was not originally
certificated with an engine-driven electrical system or which has not
subsequently been certified with such a system installed, balloon, or
glider—

I should have added the full paragraph 5, which is actually an exclusion
for airplanes that don't have an electrical system.

"(i) In all airspace of the 48 contiguous states and the District of
Columbia at and above 10,000 feet MSL, excluding the airspace at and below
2,500 feet above the surface; and

(ii) In the airspace from the surface to 10,000 feet MSL within a 10-
nautical-mile radius of any airport listed in appendix D, section 2 of this
part, excluding the airspace below 1,200 feet outside of the lateral
boundaries of the surface area of the airspace designated for that
airport."


The rule is actually as Ron described - Transpoder required in Class A, B,
and C, and all airspace above 10,000' MSL (except below 2,500' AGL), and
within the 30NM Mode C Veils of the Class B airports listed in the
appendix. I think it's all of them, but not sure because why would they
specifically list them if so?



Boy! I'm glad I studied Talmud as a kid!

"Ron Natalie" wrote in message
...
Greg B wrote:

My Ercoupe (now sold) didn't have a transponder. I could, and did, fly it
in any airspace except B (and A :-) ).


Not legally. You can't fly above 10,000 feet in controlled airspace
(admittedly a stretch in the 'coupe) nor in class C or within 30 miles
of the class B airports.

Thanks, Ron.

You're right, I didn't fly it above 10,000. I did fly *under* OKC's class C
when going into and out of PWA once. I had planned to fly into Cedar Rapids
and the Des Moines area (class C) with prior permission, but never did make
those trips.

B A R R Y wrote:
On Sun, 26 Nov 2006 09:34:17 -0500, Ron Natalie
wrote:

BT wrote:

Not required in Class E, G, or D or C
Very much required for class C, and D and E when above 10,000'

Not for D.

Yes for D when ABOVE 10,000' (see the punctuation.

"SR20GOER" wrote in message
...

"Morgans" wrote in message
...

"Dennis" wrote in message
. ..
I don't know if anyone else caught that, but it was very funny. Thanks!

I second that chuckle! :-)
--
Jim in NC
Jim (or any other USA contributors)
Slightly OT I know but can someone advise me (since we are talking
airspace) - are transponders mandatory to carry and use in Class E
airspace in the US?
cheers
Brian
All contributors

Thank you for the wealth of comment and information - it is relevant to a
response I am doing re the NAS here in Oz.

I think I am summarising correctly (cutting and pasting) as:

"Transponder required in Class A, B, and C, and all airspace above 10,000'
MSL (except below 2,500' AGL), and within the 30NM Mode C Veils of the Class
B airports listed in the appendix. But not otherwise required in Class E,
G, or D."

Brian

B A R R Y wrote:
On Sun, 26 Nov 2006 17:08:23 -0500, Ron Natalie
wrote:

B A R R Y wrote:
On Sun, 26 Nov 2006 09:34:17 -0500, Ron Natalie
wrote:

BT wrote:

Not required in Class E, G, or D or C
Very much required for class C, and D and E when above 10,000'
Not for D.
Yes for D when ABOVE 10,000' (see the punctuation.

Sorry, you're correct!

I saw a comma where there wasn't a comma.

Although, it's unlikely you'll actually be in the class D
and the 10,000 foot zone (as there is an exclusion for
2500 AGL and below).

Do not feel guilty about asking for flight following or any other ATC
service. If the controller is unable to provide you with the service
because of a high workload, then he will tell you he is "unable flight
following at this time."

Part of good CRM is taking advantage of EVERY AVAILABLE RESOURCE to
reduce risk and contribute to safety. VFR flight following, be it
terminal or center radar is just one more resource. Use it.

Visit our website for more aviation information, jobs, forums and good
advice about basic VFR skills.

["Followup-To:" header set to rec.aviation.student.]
On 2006-11-28, PilotWeb.org wrote:
Do not feel guilty about asking for flight following or any other ATC
service. If the controller is unable to provide you with the service
because of a high workload, then he will tell you he is "unable flight
following at this time."

Generally (but not always), if you listen on frequency for a few minutes
before transmitting, you'll be able to tell whether they'll be able to
give you flight following service.

One reason for flying under instrument rules in good weather is that
it effectively becomes guaranteed flight following. You still have
to look out the window, but it helps.

Part of good CRM is taking advantage of EVERY AVAILABLE RESOURCE to
reduce risk and contribute to safety. VFR flight following, be it
terminal or center radar is just one more resource. Use it.

Definitely. But if you need to travel through someone's (D/C/B)
airspace do have a backup plan in case they don't let you in.

Regular use of flight following also sharpens the radio skills
required for IFR.


Morris

PilotWeb.org writes:

Do not feel guilty about asking for flight following or any other ATC
service. If the controller is unable to provide you with the service
because of a high workload, then he will tell you he is "unable flight
following at this time."

Part of good CRM is taking advantage of EVERY AVAILABLE RESOURCE to
reduce risk and contribute to safety. VFR flight following, be it
terminal or center radar is just one more resource. Use it.

Point taken, but I know that ATC's first priority is to keep IFR
flights safe, and in busy airspace I'd not want to take any risk of
distracting them from that job. If it's quiet I might ask for flight
following, or if I felt that I were in a risky situation myself (lots
of traffic nearby).

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

"PilotWeb.org" wrote in
oups.com:

Visit our website for more aviation information, jobs, forums and good
advice about basic VFR skills.

Pilotweb,

Not sure if you realize it or not, but you are dealing with a person
(Mxmaniac) who plays games on MSFS and does not fly a real plane.

Unfortunately, the value of your website would be wasted on the individual
you are dealing with since he has been trolling these aviation newsgroups
for sometime. Check out his posting history and you will clearly see what
I am talking about (especially his responses to real world situations).

You may want to respond to those who would be more appreciative of the time
you spend in your replies.

Allen

"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
news
PilotWeb.org writes:

Do not feel guilty about asking for flight following or any other ATC
service. If the controller is unable to provide you with the service
because of a high workload, then he will tell you he is "unable flight
following at this time."

Part of good CRM is taking advantage of EVERY AVAILABLE RESOURCE to
reduce risk and contribute to safety. VFR flight following, be it
terminal or center radar is just one more resource. Use it.

Point taken, but I know that ATC's first priority is to keep IFR
flights safe, and in busy airspace I'd not want to take any risk of
distracting them from that job. If it's quiet I might ask for flight
following, or if I felt that I were in a risky situation myself (lots
of traffic nearby).


You are contradicting yourself Anthony. First you say you don't want to risk
distracting in busy airspace then you turn around that you'd use flight
following with lots of traffic nearby.

ATC is capable of deciding whether or not they are too busy to provide
flight following the pilot need not worry about distracting them with the
request or the service.