A380 captain's pay

"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
news
writes:

Plus, HP has been
laying off so many people in Boise that there are lots of folks in the
market for an engineering position.

HP is laying off people everywhere. The decline at HP started when it
become
a publicly-held company with anonymous stockholders. Every company that
changes owners in that way goes down the same path.


Oh, ok. So now you're an economist.

"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...
B A R R Y writes:

Responsibility... Just like a sea captain.

Then why aren't the requirements for sea captains just as stringent, and
the
pay the same? The captain of an ocean liner has ten times as many people
to
worry about as the captain of an airliner.

And FWIW, one of my best friend's dad is a retired PanAm B747 captain
who has owned light aircraft all his life, and he says "Yes, the 747
is more difficult to fly".

What else would you expect a retired 747 captain to say?

Airliners _were_ difficult to fly, in the days when they had no
automation.
But times have changed. And Pan Am went out of business long ago.


What else would we expect you to say, you clueless twit.

"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
news
writes:

I don't work for HP anymore, I work for a small privately owned
company... HP is continuing to cut people here locally as they send
the R&D to Shanghai and Singapore. Not much future at HP in the USA.

Not much future for HP, actually.

Clueless drivel.

"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...

Snip - the usual trolling babble.

Why don't you wait until you can learn to participate in a simple public
forum, before you take on world economics.

(Paul Tomblin) wrote:
In a previous article, "Robert M. Gary" said:
The cost is actually a very small factor in overseas hiring in the
software industry. Our two main motivating factors are 1) we want a
large pool to hire from, in the U.S. right now its very much an
employees market, its hard for employeers to find "good" (not the high
school kids that were hired during the internet bubble, real engineers
with real engineering degrees) programmers to pick from and 2) Since a

Bull****. At least 50 percent of the programmers I know are not working
as programmers because their employers fired them and replaced them with
off-shore workers. There are plenty of very good programmers here in the
US who can't get work because employers don't want to pay a living wage.

My experience may or may not be atypical, but I work from home (rural
Oregon) and have so far not had any problems getting as much work as I want
or need. However, I may not be typical because I:

1) Work mostly fixed-bid software development with payment due only if the
customer accepts the final deliverable (i.e. I take on most of the risk). I
do not require nor expect fully fleshed out requirements (one of the few
things 30+ years of experience should have taught me is anticipating the
probably extent that the scope may change).

2) Most of my clients have been acquired through past associations and
referrals. (Much of my work followed me up from the San Fransico bay area
where we moved from. My location puts me in the same time zone, language,
and culture as most of my clients. I also have some idea of the amount of
scope creep they engage in, so maybe I will yet be burned by completely new
clients.)

3) Try to maintain a professional customer service mindset. So, for
example, even though I accept much of the risk, I do not inflate bids to
cover alleged risk (haven't been burned yet by any clients). I also try to
go out of my way to deliver a little extra something to take advantage of
the psychological concept of reciprocity.

4) Maintain the mindset that I am running a business that delivers custom
crafted products, not a coder or employee for hourly hire.

Most of the competition balks at point (1). Not too many programmers are
willing (or can afford) to work months on a project before delivering it
and then wait another month after invoicing to get paid.

"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
ups.com...
On May 25, 4:27 pm, B A R R Y wrote:
On 25 May 2007 12:36:27 -0700, Gary wrote:



The odds of you getting hired by anyone who has seen you post on
usenet are long indeed...

What if he's applying for "The Argument Room"?

=8^0

No this is a Abuse, Argument is down the hall.

Ah Monty Python , so passé these days

Robert M. Gary wrote:
Yea, HP is now where you want to be, especially if you are in a one
employeer town. However, the best money has always been at smaller,
riskier companies. You always take a salery cut to work at a more
"stable" company like IBM, HP, etc.

not always true actually; what you get in smaller, riskier, newer
companies, is more equity, which 99+% of the time ends up not
being worth the paper it is printed on, but with a lower base
pay, really lousy overall package (fly-by-night health insurance if
any, no 401k, etc.) and the privilege of working twice/thrice/more as
many hours... I grant you, you might get lucky, but the odds aren't
good.

--Sylvain

Jim Logajan wrote:

Most of the competition balks at point (1). Not too many programmers are
willing (or can afford) to work months on a project before delivering it
and then wait another month after invoicing to get paid.

well, having done it once or twice without ever seeing the color of the
money, I'd say that balking at point (1) is not totally unreasonable :-)

--Sylvain

B A R R Y wrote:
Responsibility... Just like a sea captain.

if you define responsibility by, say, the number of
casualties you might get per goofs, then why are physicians
(who can kill/maim only one person at a time) paid more than
engineers (who can goof really big, and repeatedly, unlike
airline pilots); we should be on the very top of the pay
scale! :-)

--Sylvain

Sylvain writes:

if you define responsibility by, say, the number of
casualties you might get per goofs, then why are physicians
(who can kill/maim only one person at a time) paid more than
engineers (who can goof really big, and repeatedly, unlike
airline pilots); we should be on the very top of the pay
scale! :-)

Physicians are also less heavily regulated than airline pilots and some
engineers, which is also rather curious.