Coordinated turns without rudder, and autopilots

Mxsmanic wrote in
:

Dudley Henriques writes:

Rudder use to acheive the objective of keeping the tail lined up with
the nose can accurately be said to be relative to aircraft type and
airspeed. You need a fair amount of rudder to handle yawfor example
in a typical light general aviation type airplane to execute a
coordinated turn entry and exit.

So how does the autopilot do it?

It doesn't, fjukkkwit.


bertie

Mxsmanic wrote in
:

Dan writes:

So where is this perfect airplane? I don't know about you, but I need
the rudder pedals to fly the aircraft.

But autopilots apparently do not, and that's what puzzles me.


Everything puzzles you fjukkwit, primarily because of your autistic
attitude.


Bertie

Mxsmanic wrote in
:

Erik writes:

Autopilots in simulators do not. Actual (that's opposite of virtual)
light aircraft need a rudder.

Autopilots on light aircraft do not, and I'd like to know why.


Why, , youre never going to fly one anyway, fjukkwit.


bertie

Ron Natalie wrote in news:465c02e7$0$30412
:

Dan wrote:
\

So where is this perfect airplane? I don't know about you, but I
need
the rudder pedals to fly the aircraft.

Get in most any aircraft. Take it to a normal cruise airspeed.
Put your feet flat on the floor and roll her into a standard rate
turn. I can almost guarantee the ball will be centered.

No, it won't, actually. The tendency towards adverse yaw is amelierated
in most modern light airplanes, but it's still there. It's just that
most modern airplanes ahve been dumbed down to allow almost co-ordinated
flight without rudder usage, but there isn't a conventional airplane
flying without CAR that is totally co-rdinated in when roll is
introduced, though many come close.
That includes airliners which we fly with feet on the floor most of the
time. Some, on approach, have some sort of third axis feature, but most
are two axis most of the time (exceptying FBW busses and the 777) The
yaw damper does a lot towards co-ordinating, but if you introduce a high
rate of roll, they'll yaw, at least momentarily, the worng direction.


Bertie

Ron Natalie wrote in news:465c026d$0$30412
:

Luke Skywalker wrote:
\
Ron...

oh my goodness...get some time with a good book on the subject and
then a CFI.

Robert


I have plenty of good books and practice on the subject.

Me too.

You're wrong.


Bertie

Mxsmanic wrote in
:

John Theune writes:

What makes you think they do not control the rudder?

The absence of rudder movement, and the expense of providing servos
for the rudder as well as the ailerones. It's possible that
autopilots on transport aircraft do control the rudder, but the small
ones for small aircraft apparently do not.


Uou're a fjukkwit and you know nothing about airplanes.


bertie

Mxsmanic wrote in
:

Bob Moore writes:

Swept wing and some straight wing aircraft have independent Yaw
Damper(s) that control the rudder(s). Their primary function is to
control (prevent) dutch roll. They operate with the autopilot on or
off.

I'm thinking along the lines of small aircraft such as a C172 or
Baron. They do not have AP control of the rudder, and yet the AP can
still execute coordinated turns.

No it can't, fjukkkwit.


Bertie

Mxsmanic wrote in
:

Bob Moore writes:

An unwanted side-effect of aileron operation is adverse yaw — a
yawing moment in the opposite direction to the turn generated by the
ailerons. In other words, using the ailerons to roll an aircraft to
the right would produce a yawing motion to the left. It is caused by
an increase in induced drag due to the greater effective camber of
the wing with a downward- deflected aileron, and the opposite effect
on the other wing. Modern aileron systems have minimal adverse yaw,
such that it is barely noticeable in most turns. This may be
accomplished by the use of differential ailerons, which have been
rigged such that the downgoing aileron deflects less than the
upward-moving one. Frise ailerons achieve the same effect by
protruding beneath the wing of an upward deflected aileron,
increasing drag on that side. Ailerons may also use a combination of
these methods.

Except I do see adverse yaw in turns in my (simulated) Baron,

It's not a Baron, fjukktarfd, it;s a comnputer.


Bertie

Mxsmanic wrote in
:

Paul kgyy writes:

As others have posted, most lightplane autopilots don't adjust the
rudder for adverse yaw when turning, so you do get a few seconds of
slightly uncoordinated flight. However at normal cruise speeds this
creates no hazard or discomfort.

So in theory I should be able to turn myself with ailerons only in the
same way, without the need to use the rudder to stay coordinated.
What's the secret? Each time I try to turn at the same rate that the
AP manages, I have to use the rudder to stay coordinated.

If flying close to stall, the autopilot should be turned off even for
straight and level flight. If the airplane is on the verge of
stalling and starts to turn because of engine p-factor or any other
reason, the autopilot will attempt to correct with aileron. This may
actually induce stall on one wing, producing sudden wing drop and a
potential spin.

I have an aversion to stalls and I usually stay well away from them.

You're an idiot. You can't stall a computer, fjukkwit.

you can't fly a computer!


Asshole.

Bertie

Mxsmanic wrote in
:

Maxwell writes:

It's honestly just one of those things that do not hold true to form
on PC simulators.

Real autopilots on real aircraft do not necessarily have control over
the real rudders, and yet they execute real coordinated turns without
those rudders. How do they do it?


They don't fjukkwit.


Bertie