No uranium, no munitions, no missiles, no programmes

Nonsense. The neo-cons in the administration wanted to beat up an Arab
country to show the rest they mean business. They had also wanted to
take out Saddam in 91. Iraq was the only Arab country that they had any
hope of making a case against which would be believed by enough people.
So they exaggerate what was far from solid intelligence, ignore what is
not convenient, and do the deed. Taking out Hussien is easier than
finding Bin Laden, and you get to fly to an aircraft carrier for a great
photo op. Maybe you can even have some victory parades in an election
year.

Is Tony B. a Neo-con too... Is anyone who disagrees with you simply a
Neo-con.

Also please tell me why is a Neo-con a bad thing....
As opposed to say a political Left-wing Nut.

"Jim" wrote:


Is Tony B. a Neo-con too... Is anyone who disagrees with you simply a
Neo-con.

Also please tell me why is a Neo-con a bad thing....

You seem rather defensive about it.

No just asked a question, I have always been a traditional conservative....
I just wanted to know why folks felt the
NeoCons are this OH so terrible group as opposed to other political
groups... I was hoping for an honest explanation
why they were any worse then your run of the mill West Coast liberal...

Neocons are Bolshevik Jews. They are cons as in confidence tricksters
- paying easy lip-service to such Traditional Conservative concerns as
abortion, pornography, guns, freedom, fidelity etc etc etc. which they
regard as quaint and parochial trivia.. what they want is power.
Power is all they want. Power to destroy the enemies of Israel. At
whatever cost to the United States, their slave. EOS.

Grantland

It
seems to me Neocons use government for their
causes (some i find wrong and distasteful) and liberals use government for
there causes (most that are wrong and distasteful)

Personally I prefer we would shrink government and get it out of people
lives and allow the people, to do their own work.
I do realize some regualtion and centrial goverment is needed sure... But
I don't beleive in the socialist "Big Papa" concept at all
and trully beleive that state/local goverment is the way to go for these
type issues... They are much more accountable to the people.



Jim

In article , says...
Nonsense. The neo-cons in the administration wanted to beat up an Arab
country to show the rest they mean business. They had also wanted to
take out Saddam in 91. Iraq was the only Arab country that they had any
hope of making a case against which would be believed by enough people.
So they exaggerate what was far from solid intelligence, ignore what is
not convenient, and do the deed. Taking out Hussien is easier than
finding Bin Laden, and you get to fly to an aircraft carrier for a great
photo op. Maybe you can even have some victory parades in an election
year.

Is Tony B. a Neo-con too... Is anyone who disagrees with you simply a
Neo-con.

Also please tell me why is a Neo-con a bad thing....

You seem rather defensive about it.

As opposed to say a political Left-wing Nut.



I guess compared to you, anyone is left wing.

Is Tony B. a Neo-con too... Is anyone who disagrees with you simply a
Neo-con.

Also please tell me why is a Neo-con a bad thing....

You seem rather defensive about it.

No just asked a question, I have always been a traditional conservative....
I just wanted to know why folks felt the
NeoCons are this OH so terrible group as opposed to other political
groups... I was hoping for an honest explanation
why they were any worse then your run of the mill West Coast liberal... It
seems to me Neocons use government for their
causes (some i find wrong and distasteful) and liberals use government for
there causes (most that are wrong and distasteful)

Personally I prefer we would shrink government and get it out of people
lives and allow the people, to do their own work.
I do realize some regualtion and centrial goverment is needed sure... But
I don't beleive in the socialist "Big Papa" concept at all
and trully beleive that state/local goverment is the way to go for these
type issues... They are much more accountable to the people.



Jim

In article , says...

Is Tony B. a Neo-con too... Is anyone who disagrees with you simply a
Neo-con.

Also please tell me why is a Neo-con a bad thing....

You seem rather defensive about it.

No just asked a question, I have always been a traditional conservative....
I just wanted to know why folks felt the
NeoCons are this OH so terrible group as opposed to other political
groups... I was hoping for an honest explanation
why they were any worse then your run of the mill West Coast liberal... It
seems to me Neocons use government for their
causes (some i find wrong and distasteful) and liberals use government for
there causes (most that are wrong and distasteful)

Personally I prefer we would shrink government and get it out of people
lives and allow the people, to do their own work.
I do realize some regualtion and centrial goverment is needed sure... But
I don't beleive in the socialist "Big Papa" concept at all
and trully beleive that state/local goverment is the way to go for these
type issues... They are much more accountable to the people.



Jim

http://www.csmonitor.com/specials/neocon/neocon101.html

While this definition does not mention it, the neocon agenda seems to
have abandoned the concept of fiscal conservatism and balanced budgets.
Canada has weathered the recent economic storms far better that the US
because we have maintained balanced budgets throughout the period. We
have not "stimulated" our economy with drastic tax cuts which cause
excess government borrowing and undue demand on capital by government.
As a result, the capital remains available to the private sector here.
Despite recent problems such as the SARS and mad cow crises, our economy
has grown at a much faster rate than that of the US. And we liberal (no,
its not a bad word in Canada) hoards have universal medical care and much
more comprehensive social programs the US.

--
"The whole history of the world is summed up in the fact that, when nations
are strong, they are not always just, and when they wish to be just, they
are no longer strong."
Robert K. Dornen, U.S. Congressman. 1995
"Neil Harden" wrote in message
. ca...
In article , says...

Is Tony B. a Neo-con too... Is anyone who disagrees with you
simply a
Neo-con.

Also please tell me why is a Neo-con a bad thing....

You seem rather defensive about it.

No just asked a question, I have always been a traditional
conservative....
I just wanted to know why folks felt the
NeoCons are this OH so terrible group as opposed to other political
groups... I was hoping for an honest explanation
why they were any worse then your run of the mill West Coast liberal...
It
seems to me Neocons use government for their
causes (some i find wrong and distasteful) and liberals use government
for
there causes (most that are wrong and distasteful)

Personally I prefer we would shrink government and get it out of people
lives and allow the people, to do their own work.
I do realize some regualtion and centrial goverment is needed sure...
But
I don't beleive in the socialist "Big Papa" concept at all
and trully beleive that state/local goverment is the way to go for these
type issues... They are much more accountable to the people.



Jim

http://www.csmonitor.com/specials/neocon/neocon101.html

While this definition does not mention it, the neocon agenda seems to
have abandoned the concept of fiscal conservatism and balanced budgets.
Canada has weathered the recent economic storms far better that the US
because we have maintained balanced budgets throughout the period. We
have not "stimulated" our economy with drastic tax cuts which cause
excess government borrowing and undue demand on capital by government.
As a result, the capital remains available to the private sector here.
Despite recent problems such as the SARS and mad cow crises, our economy
has grown at a much faster rate than that of the US. And we liberal (no,
its not a bad word in Canada) hoards have universal medical care and much
more comprehensive social programs the US.


I am familiar with the term. That is why I was asking what is so bad about
them? Perfect? no, but who is?
It would seem Teddy Roosevelt as well as Ronald Regan could be classified as
a NeoCons.
They were arguably a two of our Best presidents. While I disagree with some
of the current administrations
decisions and I would perfer a more conservitive course with respect to
growth of goverment ( i.e. homeland security, , patriot act etc etc).
However, lets be frank, we wouldn't be here or having this conversation
had the privious (liberal) administration
taken care of bussiness (Osama) on any of the several chances they had.
Willie claims on the talk show circuit he warned Bush
severial times... He also did nothing severial times when he could have
taken him out. Where I am from that makes him all talk and no action
(execpt were interns are concerned)...

Some claim we are to stretched militarily, however, we wouldn't be
stretched militarily if the previous administration had not gutted the
services capabilities
on the alter of the "artificial peace dividend" . It needs to be said:
The peace dividend only pays off when the bad guys are all gone and they
obviously aren't all gone. So once again the current administration (and
American people) are feeling the burden of a bad policy decisions made by
the previous administration.

Concerning the economy. It was tanking already Pre-Bush... These things
are cyclical and do happen irregardless of party in power.
All the leading indicators were just starting the uptick when 9/11 erased
severial hunderd billion dollars from our ecomony in one fell swoop.
this also effected the rest of the world, I find it unlikly that it hit
them with the same magnatude as it did us but we are still out preforming
most
of the G-7. I would also bet that the US ecomony will significantly
outpreform the Canadian one in the near term... So when the US dollar is
only 80
cents to the Canadian dollar I will give you bragging rights.

Concerning Budgets, since we are at war it isn't unheard of to run deficets,
I beleive FDR did so without being overly harried about it. Additionally if
our neighbor to the North was the world's only superpower and as such took
care of the security needs of the contenent, I wonder what we would look
like if we could free up and reallocate severial points of GNP to other
uses. Lets be honest. The military Canada has is very professional, it is
also unable to defend Canada by itself. It would be dishonest to say
Cananda hasn't reaped some extreamly big security benifits (and budget)
from having a Big Brother to the south.

Concerning health care, why do so many Canadians then travel to America to
recieve there "universal Care"? Additionally perscription drugs price
controls keep the price down in Canada, and drive the prices up south of the
border (thanks again).

The point I am making is it is hard to compair Canada to America directly.
Like the pilot fish Canada recieves some a very big benfits without cost
from swimming in the same pond as Mr Great White.



Jim

On Mon, 20 Oct 2003 19:11:46 -0500, Neil Harden
wrote:

In article , says...

Is Tony B. a Neo-con too... Is anyone who disagrees with you simply a
Neo-con.

Also please tell me why is a Neo-con a bad thing....

You seem rather defensive about it.

No just asked a question, I have always been a traditional conservative....
I just wanted to know why folks felt the
NeoCons are this OH so terrible group as opposed to other political
groups... I was hoping for an honest explanation
why they were any worse then your run of the mill West Coast liberal... It
seems to me Neocons use government for their
causes (some i find wrong and distasteful) and liberals use government for
there causes (most that are wrong and distasteful)

Personally I prefer we would shrink government and get it out of people
lives and allow the people, to do their own work.
I do realize some regualtion and centrial goverment is needed sure... But
I don't beleive in the socialist "Big Papa" concept at all
and trully beleive that state/local goverment is the way to go for these
type issues... They are much more accountable to the people.



Jim

http://www.csmonitor.com/specials/neocon/neocon101.html

While this definition does not mention it, the neocon agenda seems to
have abandoned the concept of fiscal conservatism and balanced budgets.
Canada has weathered the recent economic storms far better that the US
because we have maintained balanced budgets throughout the period. We
have not "stimulated" our economy with drastic tax cuts which cause
excess government borrowing and undue demand on capital by government.
As a result, the capital remains available to the private sector here.
Despite recent problems such as the SARS and mad cow crises, our economy
has grown at a much faster rate than that of the US. And we liberal (no,
its not a bad word in Canada) hoards have universal medical care and much
more comprehensive social programs the US.

And all of your decent doctors have fled to the US, while your
military is slowly dying of under funding. By the way, what is the
Canadian dollar worth today, USD .60?

Al Minyard

"Jim" wrote in message ...
Is Tony B. a Neo-con too... Is anyone who disagrees with you simply a
Neo-con.

Also please tell me why is a Neo-con a bad thing....

You seem rather defensive about it.

No just asked a question, I have always been a traditional conservative....
I just wanted to know why folks felt the
NeoCons are this OH so terrible group as opposed to other political
groups... I was hoping for an honest explanation
why they were any worse then your run of the mill West Coast liberal... It
seems to me Neocons use government for their
causes (some i find wrong and distasteful) and liberals use government for
there causes (most that are wrong and distasteful)

Personally I prefer we would shrink government and get it out of people
lives and allow the people, to do their own work.
I do realize some regualtion and centrial goverment is needed sure... But
I don't beleive in the socialist "Big Papa" concept at all
and trully beleive that state/local goverment is the way to go for these
type issues... They are much more accountable to the people.

Had never heard of Neocons until this Iraq thing blew up. Neocons
apprear to be an interesting bunch - if only for their rapid rise to
prominence in US Republican politics. Also interesting is their
relationship with an organisation called the AEI (American Enterprise
Institute)
There have been documentaries in Oz (a tv show called 4 Corners) and
in the UK on the BBC describing the 'agenda(s)' of Neocons and AEI,
and without setting the moggie amongst the pidgeons... Israel appears
to have a lot to do with it (ACCORDING TO THE TV SHOWS! ...not my
interpretation) However, I doubt hat such documentaries would make it
onto mainstream US TV dunno about PBS though.

David

Alan Minyard wrote in message . ..
On Mon, 20 Oct 2003 19:11:46 -0500, Neil Harden
wrote:

In article , says...

Is Tony B. a Neo-con too... Is anyone who disagrees with you simply a
Neo-con.

Also please tell me why is a Neo-con a bad thing....

You seem rather defensive about it.

No just asked a question, I have always been a traditional conservative....
I just wanted to know why folks felt the
NeoCons are this OH so terrible group as opposed to other political
groups... I was hoping for an honest explanation
why they were any worse then your run of the mill West Coast liberal... It
seems to me Neocons use government for their
causes (some i find wrong and distasteful) and liberals use government for
there causes (most that are wrong and distasteful)

Personally I prefer we would shrink government and get it out of people
lives and allow the people, to do their own work.
I do realize some regualtion and centrial goverment is needed sure... But
I don't beleive in the socialist "Big Papa" concept at all
and trully beleive that state/local goverment is the way to go for these
type issues... They are much more accountable to the people.



Jim

http://www.csmonitor.com/specials/neocon/neocon101.html

While this definition does not mention it, the neocon agenda seems to
have abandoned the concept of fiscal conservatism and balanced budgets.
Canada has weathered the recent economic storms far better that the US
because we have maintained balanced budgets throughout the period. We
have not "stimulated" our economy with drastic tax cuts which cause
excess government borrowing and undue demand on capital by government.
As a result, the capital remains available to the private sector here.
Despite recent problems such as the SARS and mad cow crises, our economy
has grown at a much faster rate than that of the US. And we liberal (no,
its not a bad word in Canada) hoards have universal medical care and much
more comprehensive social programs the US.

And all of your decent doctors have fled to the US, while your
military is slowly dying of under funding. By the way, what is the
Canadian dollar worth today, USD .60?

Al Minyard

No right now the Canadian dollar is strengthening to roughly .75 US,
the military is capable of achieving the missions that its tasked to
do by the government(although it would not mind extra funding) and the
healthcare outcomes (lifespan, infant mortality etc) are superior to
the US healthcare outcomes at onyl 2/3rds the cost. So it can be
argued that Canada is doing something right.

Dave

"Jim" wrote in :

NeoCons are this OH so terrible group as opposed to other political
groups...

Here's a good introduction to neoconservatism from a libertarian
perspective:

http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/Ne...sST072303.html



--
Coridon Henshaw / http://www3.sympatico.ca/gcircle/csbh