European military prowess

Ralph Savelsberg wrote in
:

Pilots being high on drugs? I'm sorry, but that's a load of bull.
Where do you get these things from?

Most likely he is refering to the "friendly fire" incident where the USAF
bombed a group of Canadians in Afghanistan, and the fact came to light
that the US piolts were takeing drugs to keep themselves alert.

Ralph Savelsberg wrote in message ...
BUFDRVR wrote:

Let's see.... I've gotten the impression Dan Ford a.k.a. Cub Driver
is from the United States... which hasn't got any military forces at
all, unless you count those "old guards" and whatnot they have for
shows.

But when it comes to fighting a_real_war, I'm sure the Dutch are
significantly more competent. I'm sure the Dutch train for actual
warfare, unlike that girl scout camp the U.S. military calls "boot
camp". (where they btw must have so low demands so that noone fails,
since they need every single volunteer. For those who didn't know, the
U.S. "military" has big recruiting problems.)



You're as ignorant of the US military as he was of the Dutch.


BUFDRVR


I wasn't quite sure whether he was displaying sarcasm or merely
stupidity, so decided not to respond.

Ralph Savelsberg


Well Ralph, everything is relative, you know.
Compare the US with Sweden for instance. Swedish troops who've had to
work together with U.S. one sare quite tired of them, since the Swedes
always have to bodyguard the US "soldiers". In case you didn't know,
it is against the regulations for US soldiers to expose themselves for
danger.

But the Americnas should not be ashamed of that, quite the contrary.
They should be envied of their extremely favourable geopolitical
situation, plus the are members of NATO, so they don't have to fear
being dragged into a real war.

Swedes on the other hand, have their constant enemy Russia next door +
they are not members of NATo, so they *must* have the ability to fight
a real war.

Alan Minyard wrote in message . ..
On 29 Oct 2003 01:07:46 GMT, 362436 (Ron) wrote:

Ralph Savelsberg

He means the Dutch "military", which is an international joke.

Al Minyard

Not at all...The Dutch (H)Air Force is rather competent and capable for the
size of a nation it is.They have added KC-10 and AH-64s to their military in
recently years, not the mention the MLU for their F-16s.

They supported us on Iraq, and I believe they have troops in Iraq currently.


Ron
Pilot/Wildland Firefighter

Ron, equipment does not make an Air Force, people do. Having pilots high
on drugs, ground crew that go on strike, etc makes me believe that they
are incompetent.

Al MInyard


Do read the text properly before you reply.
He wasn't talking about the USAF, but the Dutch one. Not all countries
have the drugs tradition and strikes tradiitons the US does.

Seraphim wrote in message ...
Ralph Savelsberg wrote in
:

Pilots being high on drugs? I'm sorry, but that's a load of bull.
Where do you get these things from?

Most likely he is refering to the "friendly fire" incident where the USAF
bombed a group of Canadians in Afghanistan, and the fact came to light
that the US piolts were takeing drugs to keep themselves alert.


Now *tha's* what I call undebatable evidence of the superb quality of the USAF.

(BUFDRVR) wrote in message ...
He means the Dutch "military", which is an international joke.

The only "joke" about the Dutch military is their grooming standards and
decidely different customs and courtesies. Beyond that, if I were a pilot of an
agressor state, I would not mess with Dutch F-16AM units. The Dutch were great
allies during Allied Force and *both* Iraqi conflicts.


yeah... I hope those who think that soldier quality lies in grooming
standards etc don't have to fight any enemies... for their own
sake...

In case you didn't know,
it is against the regulations for US soldiers to expose themselves for
danger.

Damn, I've violated that regulation dozens of times. Can you please site said
regulation so that I may avoid this in the future?


BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"

In any case the use of amphetamines

was an issue in connection with the friendly fire incident in Afghanistan in
which two USAF F-16s

bombed Canadian troops.

It was an issue for the defense lawyers. Doubtful if it was a real issue.

I must admit I don't know the outcome of that. Has there been a conclusion?

Non-judicial punishment was ordered against both pilots. One pilot accepted
the non-judicial punishment, the other requested a court martial to attempt to
fully clear himself. The trial has not yet begun.


BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"

How do you mean?

I mean you have little knowledge of US military forces or their capabilities.

Not even the U.S. government or military are trying to make anyone
believe they have materiel good for use in a real war.


Hmm, if the F-15E, F-16 and B-52H (to name just a few) and the weapons they
carry have no "material good for a real war", can you give me an example of
aircraft and ordnance that are?

Just look at the fighter planes, which wouldn't survive for 10 minutes
on an air base.

Can you give me an example of an aircraft that can survive a direct attack
while its parked on a ramp?

And when
you know you can park your planes out of reach for the enemy, they can
be as fragile as for instance the F-16 is.

See above.


BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"

Marcus Andersson wrote:

Ralph Savelsberg wrote in message
...

BUFDRVR wrote:


Let's see.... I've gotten the impression Dan Ford a.k.a. Cub
Driver is from the United States... which hasn't got any
military forces at all, unless you count those "old guards"
and whatnot they have for shows.

But when it comes to fighting a_real_war, I'm sure the Dutch
are significantly more competent. I'm sure the Dutch train
for actual warfare, unlike that girl scout camp the U.S.
military calls "boot camp". (where they btw must have so low
demands so that noone fails, since they need every single
volunteer. For those who didn't know, the U.S. "military" has
big recruiting problems.)



You're as ignorant of the US military as he was of the Dutch.


BUFDRVR


I wasn't quite sure whether he was displaying sarcasm or merely
stupidity,
so decided not to respond.

Ralph Savelsberg



Well Ralph, everything is relative, you know. Compare the US with
Sweden for instance. Swedish troops who've had to work together
with U.S. one sare quite tired of them, since the Swedes always
have to bodyguard the US "soldiers". In case you didn't know, it is
against the regulations for US soldiers to expose themselves for danger.



But the Americnas should not be ashamed of that, quite the contrary. They
should be envied of their extremely favourable geopolitical situation,
plus the are members of NATO, so they don't have to fear being
dragged into a real war.

Swedes on the other hand, have their constant enemy Russia next door
+ they are not members of NATo, so they *must* have the ability to
fight a real war.

Though some of the american posters might disagree with me, not every
piece of equipment and (obviously) not all of their soldiers are the
best in the world (by whatever definition). However, I think it is
impossible to deny that they have very good armed forces, in many
respects the best in the world, with some fantastic equipment and
impressive training. As for US soldiers exposing themselves to danger
being against regulations: the simple fact that they're over in Iraq
right now, doing a very tough job and sadly some losing their lives
shows that your remark is rather silly. I might disagree with the
reasons for them being sent there but these men and women whose duty it
is to go to a foreign country to `do the right thing' and possibly die
in the process certainly impress me, no matter where they're from.
In any democracy the loss of life of one of its soldiers is not looked
upon lightly: not in the US, nor in The Netherlands, nor in Sweden. The
very fact that the US has been a major part of NATO for a long time
means that they actually stood a pretty big chance of getting dragged
into a very real war.
Just like Mr. Minyard's, your posts could use a little more thought and
nuance.

Regards,
Ralph Savelsberg