Force feedback versus real piloting?

B A R R Y wrote in
:

On Sun, 7 Oct 2007 17:05:07 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip
wrote:

You're as qualified from flying those as would be some kid running
around with a dinky toy making airplane noises.

What if there's no toy, but he has his arms out and he's running
around the back yard? G



Day VFR only restricion.

Bertie

On Sun, 7 Oct 2007 22:38:20 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip
wrote:


Day VFR only restricion.

It would suck to hit the swingset at full speed in IFR. G

On Oct 7, 4:22 pm, "Viperdoc" wrote:
The :just hang on" goes away pretty quickly (it better!). I am far from
expert, but the airplane simply does what you want- if you over rotate on a
snap or roll, it isn't the plane that has the problem.

Interesting thread.

Seven years ago, I went to Flight Safety in Wichita to get a type
rating in the Citation Bravo, a model 550. Another pilot went with me
to do initial training for this type He already had a Citation 500
type rating but hadn't flown one in a number of years. We did a two
week course together. I took the check ride for the type rating in
the full motion simulator (my first type rating). Then we went out to
the airplane and flew it home together with no previous experience
flying this airplane at all. It was a piece of cake after the
simulator experience. Besides having full motion the sim also had a
view out the window of 180 degrees, (but still not good enough for
the FAA to approve doing circling approaches in it.)

As for PC based sims, about 10 years I became (briefly) addicted to
playing a multiplayer WWII air combat game. At that time, I'd had
about two years experience in aerobatic competition in Extras and
Yaks. As it turns out, my aerobatic experience just made me "fresh
meat" for the other guys in the game. Eventually, one of them told me
that was because I flew the acro maneuvers T O O S M O O T H L Y.
Made me predictable and an easier target. Hmmmm......

BTW, the Extra's roll rate exceeds 360 degrees/sec - even faster for
snap rolls. Stopping the roll at the desired attitude is mainly a
timing thing which requires a good bit of practice. Fortunately,
practice is major fun. ;-)

K l e i n

B A R R Y wrote in
:

On Sun, 7 Oct 2007 22:38:20 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip
wrote:


Day VFR only restricion.

It would suck to hit the swingset at full speed in IFR. G


Eww. If he did it it would explain a lot.

Bertie

I told you, one flies and the othr one sits there.

Well, we now know that Bertie is an engineer...

Bertie wishes.

Dang. With an answer like that (I.E.: Something we already knew, in a
less than useful format) I thought I had you pegged...

;-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

On Sun, 07 Oct 2007 18:40:46 -0400, B A R R Y
wrote:

On Sun, 7 Oct 2007 22:38:20 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip
wrote:


Day VFR only restricion.

It would suck to hit the swingset at full speed in IFR. G

Cumuloplayskool?

Ron Wanttaja

Jay Honeck writes:

I never have the problem in the Kiwi when I'm flying, even when doing
aerobatics in an Extra 300 (Yes, Viperdoc, it's got your plane in it!
Actually Patty Wagstaff's, but I digress...). I have felt queasy
*watching* others fly, though, especially ham-fisted newbies who over-
control in all three axes...

It is well known that it's unusual for the person controlling a vehicle to
develop motion sickness, even if he might otherwise be prone to it. As far as
I know, no definitive explanation for this exists, although there are many
theories. Indeed, motion sickness itself, when caused just by _looking_ at
something, is also somewhat of an unexplained mystery.

I became nauseated watching _The Blair Witch Project_, not because it was
scary (it wasn't), but simply because the actors had no training in
cinematography and could not keep the cameras still. And apparently the movie
was edited to remove the worst of the camera movements. It also made some
people sick in theaters for the same reason.

We had one little girl puke when her dad (a non-pilot) simply could
NOT stop over-controlling the roll axis. Back, and forth, and back,
and forth, and...**urp**.

She didn't just look away? Perhaps she didn't know why she felt sick. It
does sneak up on you.

How many times can he overcontrol before he realizes that he is
overcontrolling?

Viperdoc writes:

I have used it to practice approaches in the Baron, and it seems to be more
useful here. It was especially good in reviewing approaches in different
environments and locations.

Fly the Dreamfleet Baron. It's almost like having a new simulator.

How many times can he overcontrol before he realizes that he is
overcontrolling?

It's rare, but some people are absolutely clueless about flying the
sim. What's really odd is to watch people who interpret the motion of
a 104" screen BACKWARDS. They see the plane roll left, and turn the
yoke MORE left, resulting in rolling inverted.

Usually someone only does this once before they figure out what's
wrong. Sometimes, though, the "pilot" doesn't ever figure it out,
crashes repeatedly, and gives up. It's almost like something is wired
backwards in their head.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Jay Honeck writes:

It's rare, but some people are absolutely clueless about flying the
sim. What's really odd is to watch people who interpret the motion of
a 104" screen BACKWARDS. They see the plane roll left, and turn the
yoke MORE left, resulting in rolling inverted.

Usually someone only does this once before they figure out what's
wrong. Sometimes, though, the "pilot" doesn't ever figure it out,
crashes repeatedly, and gives up. It's almost like something is wired
backwards in their head.

What percentage of people who fly the sim make these mistakes? Do you notice
any personality traits that seem to go with being a good pilot or a bad pilot?