Hiroshima justified? (was Enola Gay: Burnt flesh and other magnificent technological achievements)

What were you doing on those particular days? What was the environment
like when everyone heard the news?

ArtKramr wrote:

Subject: Hiroshima justified? (was Enola Gay: Burnt flesh and other
magnificent technological achievements)
From: "weary"
Date: 12/27/03 6:06 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:


"B2431" wrote in message
...


From: (cave fish)


snip



The horror of Hiroshima is the sheer indiscrimate nature of the
destruction. If atom bomb had been dropped on a Japanese military
target it might have been justified. But, to kill like that in
Hiroshima and Nagasaki was blind and savage overkill.



There WERE military targets in Nagasaki and Hiroshima and I'm not talking


about


the civilians.

Nagasaki was a functioning port. Hiroshima had a army divisions and


training


facilities as well as some mines with POWs working in them.

If you had been following this thread you'd have known this by now.


The aiming point for the Hiroshima bomb was a bridge in a mainly
residential area, not any of the military or industrial assets. By
definition
the target was civilians since that is where the bomb was aimed.





As a trained and experienced bombardier I wish I could have been on the Enola
Gay that day. I would have had the honor of bringing to an end the worst war
the world has ever seen.But I was busy in Eirope at that time.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

ArtKramr ) wrote:

....

: The aiming point for the Hiroshima bomb was a bridge in a mainly
: residential area, not any of the military or industrial assets. By
: definition
: the target was civilians since that is where the bomb was aimed.
:
:

: As a trained and experienced bombardier I wish I could have been on the Enola
: Gay that day. I would have had the honor of bringing to an end the worst war
: the world has ever seen.But I was busy in Eirope at that time.

I was going to answer a previous question about "What was Art
doing on that day?" by pointing out that the war in Europe had ended
three months earlier. But it sounds like many Air Force personnel
were still in Europe.

ubject: Hiroshima justified? (was Enola Gay: Burnt flesh and other
magnificent technological achievements)
From: Merlin Dorfman
Date: 12/28/03 1:32 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

ArtKramr ) wrote:

...

: The aiming point for the Hiroshima bomb was a bridge in a mainly
: residential area, not any of the military or industrial assets. By
: definition
: the target was civilians since that is where the bomb was aimed.
:
:

: As a trained and experienced bombardier I wish I could have been on the
Enola
: Gay that day. I would have had the honor of bringing to an end the worst
war
: the world has ever seen.But I was busy in Eirope at that time.

I was going to answer a previous question about "What was Art
doing on that day?" by pointing out that the war in Europe had ended
three months earlier. But it sounds like many Air Force personnel
were still in Europe.


We were preparing to go over to Japan when the bomb dropped and we were
cancelled. I think that saved my life. I don't know if I could have made it
through both wars.The odds go down with time.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

ArtKramr ) wrote:
: ubject: Hiroshima justified? (was Enola Gay: Burnt flesh and other
: magnificent technological achievements)
: From: Merlin Dorfman
: Date: 12/28/03 1:32 PM Pacific Standard Time
: Message-id:
:
: ArtKramr ) wrote:
:
: ...
:
: : The aiming point for the Hiroshima bomb was a bridge in a mainly
: : residential area, not any of the military or industrial assets. By
: : definition
: : the target was civilians since that is where the bomb was aimed.
: :
: :
:
: : As a trained and experienced bombardier I wish I could have been on the
: Enola
: : Gay that day. I would have had the honor of bringing to an end the worst
: war
: : the world has ever seen.But I was busy in Eirope at that time.
:
: I was going to answer a previous question about "What was Art
: doing on that day?" by pointing out that the war in Europe had ended
: three months earlier. But it sounds like many Air Force personnel
: were still in Europe.
:

: We were preparing to go over to Japan when the bomb dropped and we were
: cancelled. I think that saved my life. I don't know if I could have made it
: through both wars.The odds go down with time.

I know the Luftwaffe was pretty well decimated by late 1944, so
fighter opposition was probably light; but if you were doing tactical
ground support missions I expect AA fire was still formidable.
Likewise fighter opposition to flights over Japan was not too
bad by mid-1945, as the Japanese were saving their aircraft, pilots,
and gasoline for Kamikaze attacks on the invasion force. But if you
were to be providing close support for the invasion, you certainly
would have been at risk from ground fire.
We're grateful that the war ended when it did so that ETO veterans
did not have to face a second war, and PTO veterans the ultimate in
suicidal resistance.

(ArtKramr) wrote:
Subject: Hiroshima justified? (was Enola
Gay: Burnt flesh and other
magnificent technological achievements)
From: "weary"
Date: 12/27/03 6:06 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:


"B2431" wrote in message
...
From: (cave fish)

snip

The horror of Hiroshima is the sheer indiscrimate
nature of the
destruction. If atom bomb had been dropped
on a Japanese military
target it might have been justified. But,
to kill like that in
Hiroshima and Nagasaki was blind and savage
overkill.

There WERE military targets in Nagasaki and
Hiroshima and I'm not talking
about
the civilians.

Nagasaki was a functioning port. Hiroshima
had a army divisions and
training
facilities as well as some mines with POWs
working in them.

If you had been following this thread you'd
have known this by now.

The aiming point for the Hiroshima bomb was
a bridge in a mainly
residential area, not any of the military or
industrial assets. By
definition
the target was civilians since that is where
the bomb was aimed.



As a trained and experienced bombardier I wish
I could have been on the Enola
Gay that day. I would have had the honor of
bringing to an end the worst war
the world has ever seen.But I was busy in Eirope
at that time.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

Were you training to go to the Pacific in '46 when Enola Gay and Bock's
Car ended the War? If so, what would you have flown?

Posted via www.My-Newsgroups.com - web to news gateway for usenet access!

"weary" wrote:

The aiming point for the Hiroshima bomb was a bridge in a mainly
residential area, not any of the military or industrial assets. By
definition the target was civilians since that is where the bomb was
aimed.

The aim point for the Hiroshima bomb was the city center, easily marked
because of the bridge and the split in the river.

The aim point was between the Military District Headquarters and the
Prefectural Office (and near the City Hall, too). The area of total
destruction encompassed most of the major military structures and
organizations in the city, including the 11th Infantry Regiment and the
Headquarters of the 5th Division. Partial destruction included the
area's weaponry depots and Army clothing depot.

So your description of the aim point as a "mainly residential area" is,
quite simply, misleading.

--
cirby at cfl.rr.com

Remember: Objects in rearview mirror may be hallucinations.
Slam on brakes accordingly.

On Sun, 28 Dec 2003 02:06:46 GMT, "weary" wrote:


The aiming point for the Hiroshima bomb was a bridge in a mainly
residential area, not any of the military or industrial assets. By
definition
the target was civilians since that is where the bomb was aimed.


Which of course is a lie.

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Agor...hirodamap.html

Ohh look at that. The HQ of the local military district right in the zone
of complete destruction.


greg


--
Once you try my burger baby,you'll grow a new thyroid gland.
I said just eat my burger, baby,make you smart as Charlie Chan.
You say the hot sauce can't be beat. Sit back and open wide.

"Greg Hennessy" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 28 Dec 2003 02:06:46 GMT, "weary" wrote:


The aiming point for the Hiroshima bomb was a bridge in a mainly
residential area, not any of the military or industrial assets. By
definition
the target was civilians since that is where the bomb was aimed.


Which of course is a lie.

So in your fantasy world you aim about a mile from the real target.


http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Agor...hirodamap.html

Ohh look at that. The HQ of the local military district right in the zone
of complete destruction.

Which seems to be the only military asset in the zone.
Its clear that the people were the real target.






greg


--
Once you try my burger baby,you'll grow a new thyroid gland.
I said just eat my burger, baby,make you smart as Charlie Chan.
You say the hot sauce can't be beat. Sit back and open wide.

In article ,
"weary" wrote:

"Greg Hennessy" wrote in message
...

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Agor...hirodamap.html

Ohh look at that. The HQ of the local military district right in the zone
of complete destruction.

Which seems to be the only military asset in the zone.

This map doesn't show the rest of the details. That Military District
Headquarters held the 11th Infantry Regiment, the 5th Division
Headquarters, a major artillery detachment, and a number of other
things, including the Prefectural office and the City Hall. It was also
the HQ of the invasion defense of that entire section of the island.

If you're dropping a nuke on Hiroshima in 1945, you couldn't do a whole
lot better for targeting.

Its clear that the people were the real target.

Yeah, the military people.

--
cirby at cfl.rr.com

Remember: Objects in rearview mirror may be hallucinations.
Slam on brakes accordingly.

"Chad Irby" wrote in message
om...
In article ,
"weary" wrote:

"Greg Hennessy" wrote in message
...

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Agor...hirodamap.html

Ohh look at that. The HQ of the local military district right in the
zone
of complete destruction.

Which seems to be the only military asset in the zone.

This map doesn't show the rest of the details. That Military District
Headquarters held the 11th Infantry Regiment, the 5th Division
Headquarters, a major artillery detachment, and a number of other
things, including the Prefectural office and the City Hall. It was also
the HQ of the invasion defense of that entire section of the island.

If you're dropping a nuke on Hiroshima in 1945, you couldn't do a whole
lot better for targeting.

Its clear that the people were the real target.

Yeah, the military people.

Then why did the targetting demand that the target must be
in a large urban atrea?