Serious STOL fun

"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message
...
Veeduber wrote in
:

On Jan 29, 5:18 am, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:


Really? Name a few?

Ford, GM, Chrysler, Volvo, Holden, Renault... Volkswagen :-)

http://www.gm.com/explore/technology.../specialized/i
ndustrial/industrial_engines.jsp

Every major automobile manufacturer offers a line of industrial
engines. There is also an extensive network of professional over-haul
shops that specialize in industrial engines.

For 2008 GM is introducing lighter weight Brazilian built utility
engines to replace the all-cast-iron models that have been standard
since the late 1940's.

The world can't run without utility engines for deep-well pumps, air
compressors, portable arc welders, orchard sprayers, fork lifts, all
manner of farm equipment... Many of these engines are an EXACT match
for the Model A but being of modern design, they offer better
durability and reduced fuel consumption, typically at less weight.


INteresting. The only one I know of commonly used for aviation is that
little 2 cyl Onan they put on Quickies. I know some ultralight guys use
the
little Continental 084s as well.


Bertie

Not sure whether the little Onan boxer is still in production. Most of the
little opposed cylinder flat heads have been replaced with overhead valve
Vee-twins. I strongly suspect that the switch to Vee configuration was to
fit the new engines within the width of the equipment that the older flat
head engines typically powered--but I really don't know with any certainty.

I looked for a little info on the Continental O-84 and could only find that
it is a 4 cylinder of 21 cubic inches per cylinder. From that, I would
expect a power rating of 40 to 50 HP and a weight of 90 to 105 pounds, which
would be appropriate for a single seat LSA with a gross weight of 600 to 650
pounds. But, I don't know the actual specs and am curious to learn more.

Peter

On Jan 29, 8:08*pm, "Morgans" wrote:
"William Hung" wrote

Why the Jabiru Jim?

You probably have noticed that I have no love for Rotax; so that is why
#1 - *It isn't a Rotax.
#2 - Direct drive, so it eliminates another possible failure point.
#3 - It has a realistic HP to weight ratio, so it is not terribly
overstressed like Rotax
#4 - They have been though some of a learning curve, have had some problems
that they admitted to, and actively worked to correct.
#5 - They offer some different sizes to fit your needs - another one will be
out soon, I believe. *It will be an 8 cylinder, and it plain "looks cool!"
#6 - Not many other offerings that are modern engines, not from the ancient
Lycoming-Continental gene pool.
#7 - Cost is somewhat reasonable.
#8 - It isn't a Rotax
#9 - It isn't a Rotax
#10- It isn't a Rotax

I personally will probably go with an auto conversion, but I realize that
some people do not have the ability or the desire to do something like that.

"Peter Dohm" wrote in
:


"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message
...
Veeduber wrote in
news:4e7dc1fd-653d-4c18-8e93-601b1a908203
@c4g2000hsg.googlegroups.com:

On Jan 29, 5:18 am, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:


Really? Name a few?

Ford, GM, Chrysler, Volvo, Holden, Renault... Volkswagen :-)


http://www.gm.com/explore/technology...es/specialized
/i ndustrial/industrial_engines.jsp

Every major automobile manufacturer offers a line of industrial
engines. There is also an extensive network of professional
over-haul shops that specialize in industrial engines.

For 2008 GM is introducing lighter weight Brazilian built utility
engines to replace the all-cast-iron models that have been standard
since the late 1940's.

The world can't run without utility engines for deep-well pumps, air
compressors, portable arc welders, orchard sprayers, fork lifts, all
manner of farm equipment... Many of these engines are an EXACT
match for the Model A but being of modern design, they offer better
durability and reduced fuel consumption, typically at less weight.


INteresting. The only one I know of commonly used for aviation is
that little 2 cyl Onan they put on Quickies. I know some ultralight
guys use the
little Continental 084s as well.


Bertie

Not sure whether the little Onan boxer is still in production. Most
of the little opposed cylinder flat heads have been replaced with
overhead valve Vee-twins. I strongly suspect that the switch to Vee
configuration was to fit the new engines within the width of the
equipment that the older flat head engines typically powered--but I
really don't know with any certainty.

Yeah, I saw one of those being peddled as an ultrlight engine a few
years ago. V twons haven;t done well as airplane engines. I can't recall
seeing many installed.

I looked for a little info on the Continental O-84 and could only find
that it is a 4 cylinder of 21 cubic inches per cylinder. From that, I
would expect a power rating of 40 to 50 HP and a weight of 90 to 105
pounds, which would be appropriate for a single seat LSA with a gross
weight of 600 to 650 pounds. But, I don't know the actual specs and
am curious to learn more.


I saw a website about converting them some time ago. There's a slightly
smaller twin as well.I know that at least a fw airplanes have been
successfully flown behind the 084. there is a guy who sells them new,
surplus for only about $800. There's a bit of work to be done to make
them usable as an airplane engine, but nothing crazy. Just a prop
flange, cut off the ole shroud and mess aroudn with the inlet manifold
so the carb isn't in yor windscreen.

Bertie

William Hung wrote in
:

On Jan 29, 8:08*pm, "Morgans" wrote:
"William Hung" wrote

Why the Jabiru Jim?

You probably have noticed that I have no love for Rotax; so that is
why #1 - *It isn't a Rotax.
#2 - Direct drive, so it eliminates another possible failure point.
#3 - It has a realistic HP to weight ratio, so it is not terribly
overstressed like Rotax
#4 - They have been though some of a learning curve, have had some
problem
s
that they admitted to, and actively worked to correct.
#5 - They offer some different sizes to fit your needs - another one
will
be
out soon, I believe. *It will be an 8 cylinder, and it plain "looks
cool
!"
#6 - Not many other offerings that are modern engines, not from the
ancien
t
Lycoming-Continental gene pool.
#7 - Cost is somewhat reasonable.
#8 - It isn't a Rotax
#9 - It isn't a Rotax
#10- It isn't a Rotax

I personally will probably go with an auto conversion, but I realize
that some people do not have the ability or the desire to do
something like tha
t.
I do, on both accounts. *I very much enjoy playing with things like
perfecting an engine conversion.

The plan is to get a conversion rigged up, and make a relatively
cheap plywood airboat, and run the hell out of it, while enjoying the
time playi
ng
with a unique boat on the lake. *My thought is that it lives through
the

gyroscopic loads of rapid hard pounding on a boat, it will survive
quite well in an airplane.
--
Jim in NC

Do you have any particular engine in mind for your conversion?
Someone somewhere used a Harley engine. I also have read somewhere of
a Yamaha Virago powered airplane and a BMW powered one even.


Wel, Steve Wittman used a harley in one of his first homebuilts in
something like 1921. he called it the Hardly Ableson and it didn't fly
so good! I don't think it's been a very popular engine with homebuilders
over the years. Ben a good few bike engines used, though. A few have
used BMWs and Moto Guzzis, not to mention various rice burners. The
Henderson conversion was popular in the 1930s.

Bertie

"Morgans" wrote in
:


"William Hung" wrote

Do you have any particular engine in mind for your conversion?
Someone somewhere used a Harley engine. I also have read somewhere of
a Yamaha Virago powered airplane and a BMW powered one even.

A Harley engine looks neat, but I don't like the vibration factor of
most of them.


Tha'd certanly put me off. I can see it being a weld cracking experience!

Bertie

"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message
.. .
"Peter Dohm" wrote in
:


"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message
...

INteresting. The only one I know of commonly used for aviation is
that little 2 cyl Onan they put on Quickies. I know some ultralight
guys use the
little Continental 084s as well.


Bertie

Not sure whether the little Onan boxer is still in production. Most
of the little opposed cylinder flat heads have been replaced with
overhead valve Vee-twins. I strongly suspect that the switch to Vee
configuration was to fit the new engines within the width of the
equipment that the older flat head engines typically powered--but I
really don't know with any certainty.

Yeah, I saw one of those being peddled as an ultrlight engine a few
years ago. V twons haven;t done well as airplane engines. I can't recall
seeing many installed.

Yeah, the Vee twins look like a poor compromise to me as well--so long as
anything better is still available. I would expect a lot more vibration and
the crank position is wrong for most designs unless you do a lot of work.

I looked for a little info on the Continental O-84 and could only find
that it is a 4 cylinder of 21 cubic inches per cylinder. From that, I
would expect a power rating of 40 to 50 HP and a weight of 90 to 105
pounds, which would be appropriate for a single seat LSA with a gross
weight of 600 to 650 pounds. But, I don't know the actual specs and
am curious to learn more.


I saw a website about converting them some time ago. There's a slightly
smaller twin as well.I know that at least a fw airplanes have been
successfully flown behind the 084. there is a guy who sells them new,
surplus for only about $800. There's a bit of work to be done to make
them usable as an airplane engine, but nothing crazy. Just a prop
flange, cut off the ole shroud and mess aroudn with the inlet manifold
so the carb isn't in yor windscreen.

Bertie


I found one web site mentioning them, but not much in the way of pics or
data. I'll watch for them as a curiosity.

Thanks,
Peter

"Peter Dohm" wrote in
:


"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message
.. .
"Peter Dohm" wrote in
:


"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message
...

INteresting. The only one I know of commonly used for aviation is
that little 2 cyl Onan they put on Quickies. I know some ultralight
guys use the
little Continental 084s as well.


Bertie

Not sure whether the little Onan boxer is still in production. Most
of the little opposed cylinder flat heads have been replaced with
overhead valve Vee-twins. I strongly suspect that the switch to Vee
configuration was to fit the new engines within the width of the
equipment that the older flat head engines typically powered--but I
really don't know with any certainty.

Yeah, I saw one of those being peddled as an ultrlight engine a few
years ago. V twons haven;t done well as airplane engines. I can't
recall seeing many installed.

Yeah, the Vee twins look like a poor compromise to me as well--so long
as anything better is still available. I would expect a lot more
vibration and the crank position is wrong for most designs unless you
do a lot of work.


Well, there's one guy who seems to have come up with a solution!

I'll make a seperate post wth an attachment.

I looked for a little info on the Continental O-84 and could only
find that it is a 4 cylinder of 21 cubic inches per cylinder. From
that, I would expect a power rating of 40 to 50 HP and a weight of
90 to 105 pounds, which would be appropriate for a single seat LSA
with a gross weight of 600 to 650 pounds. But, I don't know the
actual specs and am curious to learn more.


I saw a website about converting them some time ago. There's a
slightly smaller twin as well.I know that at least a fw airplanes
have been successfully flown behind the 084. there is a guy who sells
them new, surplus for only about $800. There's a bit of work to be
done to make them usable as an airplane engine, but nothing crazy.
Just a prop flange, cut off the ole shroud and mess aroudn with the
inlet manifold so the carb isn't in yor windscreen.

Bertie


I found one web site mentioning them, but not much in the way of pics
or data. I'll watch for them as a curiosity.

I thkn there was something like a JN-1 for sale on Barnstormers with one
of those on it. I thnk it might have been the same guy

Bertie

Peter Dohm wrote:
"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message
...
Veeduber wrote in
:

On Jan 29, 5:18 am, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:

Really? Name a few?
Ford, GM, Chrysler, Volvo, Holden, Renault... Volkswagen :-)

http://www.gm.com/explore/technology.../specialized/i
ndustrial/industrial_engines.jsp

Every major automobile manufacturer offers a line of industrial
engines. There is also an extensive network of professional over-haul
shops that specialize in industrial engines.

For 2008 GM is introducing lighter weight Brazilian built utility
engines to replace the all-cast-iron models that have been standard
since the late 1940's.

The world can't run without utility engines for deep-well pumps, air
compressors, portable arc welders, orchard sprayers, fork lifts, all
manner of farm equipment... Many of these engines are an EXACT match
for the Model A but being of modern design, they offer better
durability and reduced fuel consumption, typically at less weight.

INteresting. The only one I know of commonly used for aviation is that
little 2 cyl Onan they put on Quickies. I know some ultralight guys use
the
little Continental 084s as well.


Bertie

Not sure whether the little Onan boxer is still in production. Most of the
little opposed cylinder flat heads have been replaced with overhead valve
Vee-twins. I strongly suspect that the switch to Vee configuration was to
fit the new engines within the width of the equipment that the older flat
head engines typically powered--but I really don't know with any certainty.

I looked for a little info on the Continental O-84 and could only find that
it is a 4 cylinder of 21 cubic inches per cylinder. From that, I would
expect a power rating of 40 to 50 HP and a weight of 90 to 105 pounds, which
would be appropriate for a single seat LSA with a gross weight of 600 to 650
pounds. But, I don't know the actual specs and am curious to learn more.

Is this it?

http://sacramento.craigslist.org/for/554471936.html

Looks like this guy has been picking them up
surplus for quite a while and flipping them
on craigslist.

"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message
.. .


You have to wonder "why?"


Bertei


Indeed. It really leaves me speechless.

Peter

"Peter Dohm" wrote in news:k9soj.87574$L%6.20853
@bignews3.bellsouth.net:


"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message
.. .


You have to wonder "why?"


Bertei


Indeed. It really leaves me speechless.

Peter





Clever use of the gearbox. Wonder how it stand up to the thrust and
precessional loads.

Bertie