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#51
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S-turns on final
On Friday, February 17, 2017 at 9:15:13 AM UTC-7, Don Johnstone wrote:
Time was when we used to teach S turns, both for final approach and launch failures, and this was fine in slow, wooden open cockpit gliders. We also taught slipping. Pitching nose down 10 or even 20 degrees in a T21 when side slipping was not a problem, doing the same in a modern glass glider certainly is, especially when you stop the slip, the glider will accelerate rapidly, unlike the T21 which did not understand acceleration. The difference is between what we teach, which has very little do do with what is possible to do. Modern teaching tends towards getting the circuit right so that the "emergency" procedures are not needed. Modern airbrakes tend to be so good that even if you get it wrong they are all that is needed. S turns and sideslips are perfectly valid solutions, just not something you want to teach a low hours pilot, concentrating on getting the circuit right and effective use of airbrake is much safer. I still fly a T21 and sideslip a lot. I sideslip very little in glass ships as proper use of airbrake, at the correct speed, is much more effective. Last time I slipped in a T21 my hat and sunglasses blew off. S turns are more comfortable in an open-cockpit! Mike |
#52
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S-turns on final
On Sunday, 19 February 2017 06:35:49 UTC+2, Eric Greenwell wrote:
The technique is simple and easy to learn. Just don't start out with the extreme version John related! Basically, you are just increasing the rate of energy/altitude loss by 2 or 3 times normal by using full spoiler at high speeds. Try this for starters: -enter the pattern at least 1000' AGL -fly the pattern all the way until after you've turned final...NO spoilers or sideslip -continue down final without spoilers or side slip until it seems you are almost too high to get down to your aim point with full spoilers -open the spoilers fully, point the nose down until you are going 80-90 knots (but NO MORE than the max allowed speed for your landing configuration - flap setting is the usual thing limiting the allowed speed) -When the angle to your aim point looks about right for a half-spoiler approach, pull the nose up gradually to maintain that angle -when your speed drops to the desired speed on final, retract the spoilers to one-half -proceed with a normal landing Use the technique a few times, and it won't seem very extreme at all. The altitude loss is very rapid with full spoiler, gear down, and high speeds, and it's very effective at dumping excess altitude. -- Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me) - "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation" https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1 - "Transponders in Sailplanes - Dec 2014a" also ADS-B, PCAS, Flarm http://soaringsafety.org/prevention/...anes-2014A.pdf The irony of reading this, and then discovering link to something called "soaringsafety" below. |
#53
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S-turns on final
On Sun, 19 Feb 2017 02:11:37 -0800, krasw wrote:
The irony of reading this, and then discovering link to something called "soaringsafety" below. No irony: there's nothing dangerous about using brakes to scrub off excess height - its easy-peasy in a Discus 1 or K21: just follow Eric's excellent directions if you haven't done it before. Just make sure that you're not trying it for the first time on a short runway. You shouldn't need the extra length but it makes a nice comfort blanket. I haven't tried it yet in my Libelle because I haven't needed to: slipping one brings it down like a sack of anvils what with all the extra drag from pushing its razor-back tail boom sideways. -- martin@ | Martin Gregorie gregorie. | Essex, UK org | |
#54
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S-turns on final
For what is worth the the technique works in Condor. Application to meat world may vary.
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#55
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S-turns on final
On Sunday, 19 February 2017 13:33:25 UTC+2, Martin Gregorie wrote:
On Sun, 19 Feb 2017 02:11:37 -0800, krasw wrote: The irony of reading this, and then discovering link to something called "soaringsafety" below. No irony: there's nothing dangerous about using brakes to scrub off excess height - its easy-peasy in a Discus 1 or K21: just follow Eric's excellent directions if you haven't done it before. Just make sure that you're not trying it for the first time on a short runway. You shouldn't need the extra length but it makes a nice comfort blanket. I haven't tried it yet in my Libelle because I haven't needed to: slipping one brings it down like a sack of anvils what with all the extra drag from pushing its razor-back tail boom sideways. -- martin@ | Martin Gregorie gregorie. | Essex, UK org | Sorry, speed control in approach has been ironed to my skull. Sure you can do anything you want, land inverted if you like, but what is the point? We have brakes and slip which both get you you down with safe approach speed. |
#56
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S-turns on final
I look at S-turns on final as a way to increase your time aloft (at
minimum sink speed), perhaps to wait for an obstruction to be cleared off the runway (like a takeoff or a short landing). To lose altitude on final, I'll do a slip (almost) every time. And yes, I can fly at minimum sink and below without stalling... But what about a gust or gradient or blah, blah... Training and practice. On 2/19/2017 1:53 PM, krasw wrote: On Sunday, 19 February 2017 13:33:25 UTC+2, Martin Gregorie wrote: On Sun, 19 Feb 2017 02:11:37 -0800, krasw wrote: The irony of reading this, and then discovering link to something called "soaringsafety" below. No irony: there's nothing dangerous about using brakes to scrub off excess height - its easy-peasy in a Discus 1 or K21: just follow Eric's excellent directions if you haven't done it before. Just make sure that you're not trying it for the first time on a short runway. You shouldn't need the extra length but it makes a nice comfort blanket. I haven't tried it yet in my Libelle because I haven't needed to: slipping one brings it down like a sack of anvils what with all the extra drag from pushing its razor-back tail boom sideways. -- martin@ | Martin Gregorie gregorie. | Essex, UK org | Sorry, speed control in approach has been ironed to my skull. Sure you can do anything you want, land inverted if you like, but what is the point? We have brakes and slip which both get you you down with safe approach speed. -- Dan, 5J |
#58
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S-turns on final
krasw wrote on 2/19/2017 12:53 PM:
On Sunday, 19 February 2017 13:33:25 UTC+2, Martin Gregorie wrote: On Sun, 19 Feb 2017 02:11:37 -0800, krasw wrote: The irony of reading this, and then discovering link to something called "soaringsafety" below. No irony: there's nothing dangerous about using brakes to scrub off excess height - its easy-peasy in a Discus 1 or K21: just follow Eric's excellent directions if you haven't done it before. Just make sure that you're not trying it for the first time on a short runway. You shouldn't need the extra length but it makes a nice comfort blanket. I haven't tried it yet in my Libelle because I haven't needed to: slipping one brings it down like a sack of anvils what with all the extra drag from pushing its razor-back tail boom sideways. Sorry, speed control in approach has been ironed to my skull. Sure you can do anything you want, land inverted if you like, but what is the point? We have brakes and slip which both get you you down with safe approach speed. I didn't recommend you keep the high speed all the way to ground - just long enough to get on a good glide path. I have used slips many times, but find the "dirty dive" is a quick, easy, and safe way to get rid of a lot of altitude. No turns required, no uncoordinated flight, no airspeed instrument inaccuracies. I suggest you try it enough times to have some competence and confidence in it before you make any judgement about it. Or go up with someone that can demonstrate it for you. -- Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me) - "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation" https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1 - "Transponders in Sailplanes - Dec 2014a" also ADS-B, PCAS, Flarm http://soaringsafety.org/prevention/...anes-2014A.pdf |
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