Straight-ins at uncontrolled airports?

On 6 Feb 2007 08:06:29 -0800, "F. Reid"
wrote:

On Feb 6, 12:13 am, Roger wrote:
If the guy ahead of you is turning base two miles ahead and you don't
have any one close in on final just rollinto tha tight , slipping
U-turn to the end of the runway, and you'll be back to the hangar
before the 172 touches down. It all depends on the pilots and what
they are flying. If they know their planes and can be flexible (think
Oshkosh) they can all fit together nicely.

Roger, you stud jock.Lets all throw standard patterns out the window
and fly like we are at Oshkosh.You have made me realise that I dont
really know my airplane.Thanks.')

Well, then get out there and practice:-))

I'm not advocating any aerobatic maneuvers to get to the runway, but
far too many of us get stuck in the "stabilized pattern" mind set. If
we fly much we are going to get into places where the stabilized
pattern is not an option and to fly one takes practice.

Besides the above does not violate a standard pattern. It has a down
wind, base, and final although short.
Put a Cub, 172, Bonanza, Baron, and Citation on down wind and you
have the same thing. The Cub is close in while the Bo, Baron, and
Citation will be spaced farther out. They could all be on down wind
side by side and still make normal landings without having to make
much if any allowance for the other planes. If the guy ahead flys a
base 2 miles out you are under no requirement to follow him around
that extra 4 or 5 miles. The key is to not causing any conflict. Add
to that the ability to be flexible can shorten that pattern back up
after it has stretched way out.

The same is true if some one anounces they are on a 5 or 10 mile
final. IF you are on down wind you can sill fly your normal pattern
and even land ahead of them if it does not cause a conflict. However
if you are in a Cub and he's flying a Citation it'd probably be a good
idea to plan on coming in behind him.

Just use common sense. If you can land without doing anything drastic
or cutting any one off it is quite safe and legal.



Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)www.rogerhalstead.com

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

On Tue, 06 Feb 2007 14:13:18 GMT, ArtP
wrote:

On Tue, 06 Feb 2007 02:13:56 -0500, Roger
wrote:


If the guy ahead of you is turning base two miles ahead and you don't
have any one close in on final just rollinto tha tight , slipping
U-turn to the end of the runway, and you'll be back to the hangar
before the 172 touches down.

If you are 2 miles behind the plane ahead on downwind than you don't
have a crowded pattern and there is probably no need to cut in front.

If he's 2 miles out you aren't cutting in front of him. It's quite
likely he'll never even see you. We get some that fly patterns so wide
we have planes taking off and landing thinking the other guy was just
passing through.

We have crop dusters flying out of 3BS regularly in the summer. You
get used to taking what ever space is available. It's not uncommon to
be on a 1/2 mile final and have a crop duster take off and it's no
biggie even when landing the Deb. I know he'll be off the runway and
making or having made his turn away from the runway before the Deb's
wheels touch down. However if a transient is coming in or a local who
flies little that could be traumatic and the guys try to accommodate
unrecognized N numbers on the cautious side.

If a student pilot lets them know they are a student the guys give
them extra room. Most of us try not to slow their operation down
meaning we seldom get to fly a stabilized pattern.

When the airport is busy those who fly a base 2 or more miles out are
likely to find the pattern has stayed at it's regular size, but will
try to accommodate their "straight in" final:-))

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

"F. Reid" wrote in message oups.com...
: On Feb 5, 3:30 pm, "Jay Honeck" wrote:
:
: However, PLEASE try to refrain from doing them when the pattern is
: full. Not only is it rude, it's often dangerous to attempt when
: you've got three on downwind, one on base, and one already on final.
: I see this happen all too often -- almost invariably by the charter
: guys, who have a paying guy in the back that's late for his meeting --
: and it results in frayed nerves and flared tempers.
:
: Lets all pick on the charter guys ').Sometimes, it is easier (when you
: look at the comparitive speeds and altitudes) to just fly a straight
: in.Of course, this is not always the case, and people should not be
: rude or disrespectful about it.Try this the next time you are out
: there, fly your downwind at 1500 AGL and 190kts, then try to figure
: out where YOU will fit into the traffic patern.I bet you will find it
: is not so easy.Fortunatly most all of the GA guys understand this and
: are VERY helpful.IMO the transport guys appreciate it very much.But
: then there is those pesky charter guys (Kidding).
: --
: Jay Honeck
: Iowa City, IA
: Pathfinder N56993www.AlexisParkInn.com
: "Your Aviation Destination"
:


Tower: Cherokee 918, can you give me a close in approach? Traffic is a DC 10 on a 5 mile final.
Me: Sure!
Tower: Cherokee 918, you are cleared to land, runway 4R. Please expedite.
Me: Copy, cleared to land 4R, Cherokee 918.

I'm out on about a 1/2 mile right base for 4R. Moving pretty good in the Cherokee 6, no flaps yet...Pull the power and
hold the nose up, roll in to a good tight 30° right bank, slow into the white arc, pull on full flaps, roll her out and
cross the threshold at 25' or so, touchdown with the stall horn honkin'. Make the first turn off...

Tower: Cherokee 918, thanks for that, contact ground .9
Me: G-day...

Hawaiian freight dog flying days...

On 5 Feb 2007 17:42:52 -0800, Dave wrote:

On top of all that, what if the instrument approach happens to be
downwind,

That happened to me the last time I flew. I was announcing a take off on
runway 35 while a student with an instructor were announcing a 1 mile final
on runway 17.

They were practicing ILS approaches so they had to land downwind on runway
17. I had to jog out of their way on the climb out.

--
Dallas

On Tue, 06 Feb 2007 18:16:03 -0500, Roger wrote:

Citation on down wind and you
have the same thing.

In my short career, I have never seen a kerosene burner in the pattern,
they always land straight in at my airport.

--
Dallas

In article ,
Dallas wrote:

On 5 Feb 2007 17:42:52 -0800, Dave wrote:

On top of all that, what if the instrument approach happens to be
downwind,

That happened to me the last time I flew. I was announcing a take off on
runway 35 while a student with an instructor were announcing a 1 mile final
on runway 17.

They were practicing ILS approaches so they had to land downwind on runway
17. I had to jog out of their way on the climb out.

They *HAD* to do nothing of the sort. They *SHOULD* have broken off the
approach at some reasonable altitude and circled to land on the runway in
use. If you want to practice downwind landings, go to a towered airport
and let ATC control the traffic for you.

Dallas writes:
On Tue, 06 Feb 2007 18:16:03 -0500, Roger wrote:

Citation on down wind and you
have the same thing.

In my short career, I have never seen a kerosene burner in the pattern,
they always land straight in at my airport.

To give another data point -- at my home airport (KBED) I have never
seen a jet _not_ fly a pattern. This is possibly because most jets
are coming from the West, and R29 is the one normally used.

Chris

On Wed, 07 Feb 2007 08:10:26 -0500, Roy Smith wrote:

In article ,
Dallas wrote:

On 5 Feb 2007 17:42:52 -0800, Dave wrote:

On top of all that, what if the instrument approach happens to be
downwind,

That happened to me the last time I flew. I was announcing a take off on
runway 35 while a student with an instructor were announcing a 1 mile final
on runway 17.

They were practicing ILS approaches so they had to land downwind on runway
17. I had to jog out of their way on the climb out.

They *HAD* to do nothing of the sort. They *SHOULD* have broken off the
approach at some reasonable altitude and circled to land on the runway in
use. If you want to practice downwind landings, go to a towered airport
and let ATC control the traffic for you.

I took the instrument PTS at Traverse City MI (KTVC) where ILS and NDB
approaches were down wind. We never made a complete approach to the
runway from that direction due to traffic. We were the ones directed
to break off :-)) and we had expected to do so. The tower did know it
was a check ride.
As we had been doing everything down wind to that point they forgot
when we did the VOR with a circle to land on 10 and they gave us
instructions to circle that would have put us in front of departing
traffic.
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

On Wed, 07 Feb 2007 08:10:26 -0500, Roy Smith wrote:

They *HAD* to do nothing of the sort. They *SHOULD* have broken off the
approach at some reasonable altitude and circled to land on the runway

To make matters worse, they continued to practice downwind ILS landings all
day. When I was on the ground, I saw them make a go around.

Think about that for a moment. They jogged to the right of the runway
which put them a few hundred feet AGL, heading the same direction as the
pattern downwind, but well inside the pattern.

At some point they would reach pattern altitude and have to cross the
traffic turning base.

--
Dallas

Roger wrote:

I've also received an "expedite" as I took the runway as there was a
jet on 5 mile final. It didn't bother me, but it dure made my
passenger nervous. This was another DC-9 at LAN

"Keep your speed up" is something I heard constantly at IAD
when I was based there. Used to fly 120 knots until the
threshold in a Skyhawk and sometimes even managed 140 in
the Navion (well, we were also descending). The first
turn off at Dulles is 4500 down the runway, so had plenty
of time to get her slowed down and turned off (slips with
flaps were a normal procedure).

Nobody flew anything resembling a pattern.