Full before landing checklist in the pattern?

In article , rmoore16
@tampabay.rr.com says...
T-Boy wrote

You land with the carb heat ON?

My Cessna provided pilot's operating handbook checklist for a 1959
C-172 reads as follows:

J. BEFORE LANDING.
(1) Set fuel selector to "Both".
(2) Recheck mixture "Full Rich" (full in).
(3) Apply carburetor heat before closing throttle.

Of course this was before the FAA seatbelt regulation which added
to later models a "Seatbelts ON" item.

A commercially available C-172 N model checklist from AVTECH PILOT
PRODUCTS reads as follows:

BEFORE LANDING CHECKLIST
Seats/Seatbelts............Secure
Fuel Selector..............Fullest Tank/Both
Carburetor Heat............ON
Mixture....................Rich/As Required

I've spent about six years landing with the carb heat ON.

Bob, see my reply to Steve - comments there, if any - appreciated.

--
Duncan

Sooo, what do you do if the oil pressure is not in the green? You DON'T
land???


You make a short approach? If not by choice, then by physics.

Jose

--
(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)

Mixture - set appropriately

Mure useful is sometihng like:

Mixture - rich below 5000

Jose

--
(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)

On Fri, 07 Nov 2003 07:34:56 -0900, Scott Skylane
wrote:

aaronw wrote:

In the C-172SP I fly I do:

/snip/
A quick glance at the engine gauges to ensure that oil pressure (above
all else) is in the green.

aw

Sooo, what do you do if the oil pressure is not in the green? You DON'T
land???

Well, I land, but it would be nice to know if it is having troubles
BEFORE possibly having to extend my downwind due to other traffic in
the area. Yes, I'll be on the ground in 60 seconds or so, but I'd
prefer not to get surprised.

Since I'm low to the ground, my gliding distance in case of engine
failure is lower, and every second I spend in downwind once I pass the
threshold is carrying me further away from the airport.

Yes, engine failure at any time is bad, and I be ready for it anytime,
but there is a lot of stuff taking up my concentration when manuvering
in the pattern, so I just do a quick glance to make sure all is as
good as it gets.

aw

my wife takes her seat belt off and lays the seat back on trips.
20-30 minutes out I have her put the seat up and put on her belt and I put
my shoulder belt back on.
As for landing checklist, gas - gear - prop - mixture, but by the time I
am at TPA I am at full rich and gear is usually down anyways.


Newps wrote:

wrote:
On Thu, 06 Nov 2003 17:36:14 GMT, Newps wrote:


Skip the seatbelts.


That's probably the only thing on the list required by regulation:

Yeah, that's my point. Who takes them off?

"Bob Gardner" wrote in message
news:nBSqb.141282$e01.473457@attbi_s02...
This gets back to the discussion/controversy about "do" lists versus
"check"
lists....students are taught to use the list as a "do" list, which
requires
taking an action (or touching a control) for each item on the list. With
experience, pilots graduate to a "check" list, where they use a flow
pattern
or other method to do what needs to be done, and then refer to the list as
a
"Have I forgotten anything?" reminder.

Bob Gardner
Good point! guess I assumed that by " full before landing checklist" while
"doing pattern work" meant a written one. Seems that the discussion has
devolved into a debate on mnemonics and various rituals while preparing to
land, ok sounds like everyone agrees that something needs to be done; for
example the seat belt issue. Most usually take care of this item before
descent and not in the pattern. As I recall wasn't the original question
related to " doing pattern work"? Sure, pilots need a way to remember
important items for critical phases of operations; mixture is a good example
but the procedures need to be tailored to the aircraft. In a 172 we never
instruct "mixture----Rich but mixture---Set or as req. in our 210 landing at
high alt airports such as Big Bear or Tahoe etc we use full rich(turbo) I
still think that in the pattern all non critical items have been complied
with before and the pilot should only attend critical items and not be
reading a list. Although there are always differences, I sense that most
single pilots operations use a checklist as a "have I forgotten anythig?".
R.Wallace
"mrwallace" wrote in message
...

"BoDEAN" wrote in message
...
How many people do / teach doing a full before landing checklist when
doing pattern work? I do with my students, but other cfi's I work with
use a quick / abbreviated one for our Cessna 172/152

"Bob Taylor" wrote in message
...
Ron Natalie wrote:

"G.R. Patterson III" wrote in message
...


Ron Natalie wrote:

Frankly, we NEVER touched that lever.

Absolutely! In my 150, it never got turned. After 25+ years in one
position, I
felt that nothing good could happen by moving it.

Yep, unless the plane is on fire...

I turn the fuel valve all the way around on Cessnas before EVERY flight
and teach my students to do
the same. It is a very nice thing to know that this valve can be turned
BEFORE the plane catches
fire. It is also good to know how much force it takes. Of course when
fueling Cessnas, it is best to
have this handle in anything but BOTH because some fuel will cross feed
faster than you can climb down
the latter and scurry to the other side.
Yeah, we carry a pair of pliers and a screwdriver in case anything like
the fuel select handle breaks but we never fool whith the fuel tank select
while in the pattern. That's a pre-descent or in range item. I used to fly
with a wwII guy who would switch from right tank, to Off, let the engine
start to die, and then switch to left tank, as part of his preflight. He
explained that he was checking the fuel feed and fuel select integrity. made
sense, at least he knew that the lever was free and he had feed from both
tanks.
R.Wallace
I teach this on Pipers too. I have had many a student that couldn't turn
the Cherokee fuel selector
to OFF because he/she couldn't figure out the detent without some
coaching. That's not a learning
process you have time for in a real emergency when the fuel needs to be
shut off now.....

"Jeff" wrote in message ...
my wife takes her seat belt off and lays the seat back on trips.
20-30 minutes out I have her put the seat up and put on her belt and I put
my shoulder belt back on.

lol...

You're the guy who is so nervous, you won't land on anything shorter than
5000 feet, but you let your wife take her seat belt off during a flight, in
spite of the very real risk of turbulence that could easily break her neck.

Pretty funny...

"mrwallace" wrote
Although there are always differences, I sense that most single
pilots operations use a checklist as a "have I forgotten anythig?".

Which is the manner in which we used checklists in the airline
business. A brief quote from my PanAm Boeing manual (which
presented an entire page on why, when, and how to accomplish
checklists) reads as follows:

"The crew can and should accomplish their functions as
circumstances and good judgement dictate. The checklist
then becomes a verification that items have not been
forgotten."

Bob Moore
PanAm (retired)

For many years I've observed many (most?) who are accustomed to flying
without checklists ...

3/4 don't check the brakes when they first start to taxi - another 3/4 don't
verify they can draw fuel from BOTH tanks prior to runups - 1/2 don't switch
on the beacon - 1/2 don't check the vacuum - the list goes on an on. The
problem is the pilots fly the plane the way they were taught by a person who
flys it the way they were taught and so on - in many cases these instructors
have developed lazy / undiciplined habits over the years - which get passed
on to the next person.

By using checklists (and getting used to using checklists) nothing EVER gets
forgotten - and habits are well formed when pilots transition to higher
performance aircraft (where transitioning pilots may initially be 2 miles
behind the aircraft - and checklists become more important than ever).






"Judah" wrote in message
...
These guys are probably the same ones that tell you that since it's a
school plane, you can use the "abbreviated preflight checklist" and just
check for fuel and oil before going up.

If your students never plan to fly any plane besides the one that they
were
trained it, it MIGHT be OK to abbreviate the checklist to cover only those
items that are "applicable" to their plane.

But if you want to train someone to be a good pilot, you build good
habits,
which may include checking things that are easy to "assume".

JMHO..

BoDEAN wrote in
:

How many people do / teach doing a full before landing checklist when
doing pattern work? I do with my students, but other cfi's I work with
use a quick / abbreviated one for our Cessna 172/152