About German Mystery Objects

Aerophotos wrote:

Gordon yet again please show fit on anything top secret since ww2 been
released from Black Projects etc with UFO technologies.. problem is you
cant... the US govt is too paranoid and scared if the world finds out

What would happen if the world found out?

If "Opportunity" or "Spriit" or "Beagle2" get a picture of a little
green man looking back at them from a hole in the Martian surface,
must the public be denied this particular snapshot? One more
addition to the vault under Area 51?

What if one of these research landers make the mistake of drilling
a test hole through the little guy's head??!!! The first known
interplanetary war?

A fine argument for humans exploring space rather than robots!


SMH

"The Enlightenment" wrote in message
...

"Keith Willshaw" wrote in message
...

"robert arndt" wrote in message
om...


Well said. Three cheers for the guy with a brain!
I'll give you another example comparison between US and German
tech
from 1945.
Had the war gone on just until the fall of 1945 the German soldier
would have had: a new M44 stalhelm, M44 Liebermuster camouflage
(which
contained carbon and IR defeating dyes), the STG-45 assault rifle,
the
Pzf 150 AT weapon, and Nipolit formed disc grenades.

Reliant on horse drawn vehicles for resupply.

The British were reliant on Americans for resupply.


Of food mainly and of course we had to import our oil
but much of it came from the fields in Iraq and Iran.

The reality is that Germany was a resource poor nation that had only
forrest and coal and horse drawn logistics was all that was possible
withou access to cheap steel and oil.


They made steel the same way we did with coke , limestone and
iron ore and Germany had access to cheap high grade iron ore from
Scandinavia. Britain had to reopen old low grade mines such as
those around Skelton. Germany actually had access to MUCH
more steel than Britain did since it controlled the industries of
France , Belgium and Czechoslovakia but it managed to use them
so poorly it could match Britain in production of weapons and
the UK also managed to build an Ocean going fleet.

In the meantime the British were Lording it up secure in the monopoly
and control they had of the the rerources of their colonies oil,
rubber, tin, manganese, nickel, chromium, tungsten, steel etc.

Rubber originally came from Malaya but with that in Japanese
hands alternate supplies came from Brazil, an ally

Tin , manganese, nickel etc came from many sources
including the USA, South Africa, Canada and the USSR

Steel was home produced using British coal ,limestone and
iron ore.


They
forced boer familes intio concentration camps where they died of
disease and poor food to secure yet more colonies,

That was of course 40 years before the period we are discussing.
By 1940 South Africa was moving towards independence

they helped Turks
to invade Bulgaria and Just to swipe at the Russians who were heling
their christian allies and all sorts of excuses to cut down anyone
that might one day rival them by fair means.


Hardly, the Turks invaded Bulgaria in 1396

The Crimean war was occasioned by the Russian invasion
of Bulgaria

Do try and read a history book now and then


The most shocking thing for most British soldiers when they closed
the Falaise gap was to discover that most German army units
were totally reliant on horse and cart to deliver supplies
from the railhead. Every British Infantry division had been
motorised since 1945 and they also realised that while the
SS might be well supplied with weapons and material
the average Wermacht soldier had to walk into battle on his
own two legs, was armed with the 5 shot bolt action
Karabiner 98k rifle of 1898 vintage and WW1 designed
hand grenades.


The Panzershreck was of course inspired
by the Bazooka

The Bazooka was a miserable weapon, panzerschreck adressed its
weaknesses. Allied soldiers in Normany had to use captured
panzerschreks and panzerfausts becuase the bazooka and the infinetely
more miserable PIAT were so ineffective.


They were certainly decent weapons but the Piat and bazooka
could and did kill most German tanks including the Panther

The Panzerfaust was however a very effective weapon that owes nothing
to the bazooka. In its ultimate form the reloadable Panzerfaust 250
it was the basis of the RPG-7. A weapon more memorable and usefull
than the clumsy, bulky and awkward bazooka.


Memorable if you survided firing it with its max range of around 30 m
which was raised to 60m in later versions




Had they managed to survive into 1945 without being Nuked
the Germans would have been facing large numbers
of M-26 and Centurion battle tanks which were
superior to anything they had

The more advanced panther tanks and their new schmalturm turrets had
gyro-stabalised turrets, 88mm cannon and stereoscopic range finders so
they would have matched the newer UK and USA tanks.


That turns out to be incorrect, the Centurion with its stabilised
17 pounder main gun was designed to be proof against the
German 88 and considerably outmatched the Soviet tanks
it met in combat in Korea. It still serves in the IDF today.

The M-26 with its 90mm Gun performed well against German
tanks towards the end of the war and was supplemented later
that year by the M-45 with its 105mm gun.

Both were produced in considerable quantity


and fleets of the new US and
British jet fighters. Germany was on the wrong side of the
arms production curve from 1942 onwards. There was no
other way to go than down.

You've been around long enough to know that German arms production
peaked in 1944.


A long way behind the prduction of weapons in the USA
Britain and the USSR all of which were still climbing
in 1945


The Germans and allies were well matched intellectually. The Germans
lagged in some areas and lead in some. In the end they, and the axis,
were defeated by far superior resources: the USA, UK, Australia,
Canada, NZ, Soviet Union.


The Germans lacked a clue when it came to prioritising
development and were seriously deficient in production.

The fact remains that Britain alone outproduced Germany
in several key areas including aircraft production as early as
1940.

Keith

"Keith Willshaw" wrote in message
...

"The Enlightenment" wrote in message
...

"Keith Willshaw" wrote in message
...

"robert arndt" wrote in message
om...


Well said. Three cheers for the guy with a brain!
I'll give you another example comparison between US and German
tech
from 1945.
Had the war gone on just until the fall of 1945 the German soldier
would have had: a new M44 stalhelm, M44 Liebermuster camouflage
(which
contained carbon and IR defeating dyes), the STG-45 assault rifle,
the
Pzf 150 AT weapon, and Nipolit formed disc grenades.

Reliant on horse drawn vehicles for resupply.

The British were reliant on Americans for resupply.


Of food mainly and of course we had to import our oil
but much of it came from the fields in Iraq and Iran.

The reality is that Germany was a resource poor nation that had only
forrest and coal and horse drawn logistics was all that was possible
withou access to cheap steel and oil.


They made steel the same way we did with coke , limestone and
iron ore and Germany had access to cheap high grade iron ore from
Scandinavia. Britain had to reopen old low grade mines such as
those around Skelton. Germany actually had access to MUCH
more steel than Britain did since it controlled the industries of
France , Belgium and Czechoslovakia but it managed to use them
so poorly it could match Britain in production of weapons and

This should read couldnt match Britain

the UK also managed to build an Ocean going fleet.

In the meantime the British were Lording it up secure in the monopoly
and control they had of the the rerources of their colonies oil,
rubber, tin, manganese, nickel, chromium, tungsten, steel etc.

Rubber originally came from Malaya but with that in Japanese
hands alternate supplies came from Brazil, an ally

Tin , manganese, nickel etc came from many sources
including the USA, South Africa, Canada and the USSR

Steel was home produced using British coal ,limestone and
iron ore.


They
forced boer familes intio concentration camps where they died of
disease and poor food to secure yet more colonies,

That was of course 40 years before the period we are discussing.
By 1940 South Africa was moving towards independence

they helped Turks
to invade Bulgaria and Just to swipe at the Russians who were heling
their christian allies and all sorts of excuses to cut down anyone
that might one day rival them by fair means.


Hardly, the Turks invaded Bulgaria in 1396

The Crimean war was occasioned by the Russian invasion
of Bulgaria

Do try and read a history book now and then


The most shocking thing for most British soldiers when they closed
the Falaise gap was to discover that most German army units
were totally reliant on horse and cart to deliver supplies
from the railhead. Every British Infantry division had been
motorised since 1945 and they also realised that while the
SS might be well supplied with weapons and material
the average Wermacht soldier had to walk into battle on his
own two legs, was armed with the 5 shot bolt action
Karabiner 98k rifle of 1898 vintage and WW1 designed
hand grenades.


The Panzershreck was of course inspired
by the Bazooka

The Bazooka was a miserable weapon, panzerschreck adressed its
weaknesses. Allied soldiers in Normany had to use captured
panzerschreks and panzerfausts becuase the bazooka and the infinetely
more miserable PIAT were so ineffective.


They were certainly decent weapons but the Piat and bazooka
could and did kill most German tanks including the Panther

The Panzerfaust was however a very effective weapon that owes nothing
to the bazooka. In its ultimate form the reloadable Panzerfaust 250
it was the basis of the RPG-7. A weapon more memorable and usefull
than the clumsy, bulky and awkward bazooka.


Memorable if you survided firing it with its max range of around 30 m
which was raised to 60m in later versions




Had they managed to survive into 1945 without being Nuked
the Germans would have been facing large numbers
of M-26 and Centurion battle tanks which were
superior to anything they had

The more advanced panther tanks and their new schmalturm turrets had
gyro-stabalised turrets, 88mm cannon and stereoscopic range finders so
they would have matched the newer UK and USA tanks.


That turns out to be incorrect, the Centurion with its stabilised
17 pounder main gun was designed to be proof against the
German 88 and considerably outmatched the Soviet tanks
it met in combat in Korea. It still serves in the IDF today.

The M-26 with its 90mm Gun performed well against German
tanks towards the end of the war and was supplemented later
that year by the M-45 with its 105mm gun.

Both were produced in considerable quantity


and fleets of the new US and
British jet fighters. Germany was on the wrong side of the
arms production curve from 1942 onwards. There was no
other way to go than down.

You've been around long enough to know that German arms production
peaked in 1944.


A long way behind the prduction of weapons in the USA
Britain and the USSR all of which were still climbing
in 1945


The Germans and allies were well matched intellectually. The Germans
lagged in some areas and lead in some. In the end they, and the axis,
were defeated by far superior resources: the USA, UK, Australia,
Canada, NZ, Soviet Union.


The Germans lacked a clue when it came to prioritising
development and were seriously deficient in production.

The fact remains that Britain alone outproduced Germany
in several key areas including aircraft production as early as
1940.

Keith

Remember that Area 51 guy Bob Lazar? how come the CIA and co made him
shut up? if he was a loony they wouldn't care but they made him be quiet
or else... so explain it

Bob Lazar was so full of ****. No one ever made him shut up. He has zero
credibility among those who watch black projects and Groom Lake. The only ones
who still think anything of him, are conspiracy kooks.

Its like saying Groom Lake is controlled by the CIA,
which it is... SS could of easily controlled any UFO programs in
germany.


No, it is not. Much of the Range is DOE, and technically I believe Groom Lake
to be a detachment of Edwards. But yes, I am sure some CIA testing does go on
there. But its not their base.

Well how come all the secrets of ww2 and since are still locked away
with people not allowed to speak????

Name one..


Ron
Tanker 65, C-54E (DC-4)

Bernardz wrote in message news:MPG.1a9caa84d27558209898fd@news...


Vergeltungswaffen, just Vril-7. Meanwhile Thule came up with a more
advanced Triebwerk that utilized Coler's free energy machine, a Van
deGraf generator, a mercury sphere, and spherical levitators. This
engine was installed in the large Haunebu craft that flew the Atlantic
and made trips to an area Hitler knew would be safe from Allied
bombing, New Schwabenland in Antartica.

U-boats carried technicians and scientists to a base there, Number
211, via an undersea trench that stretched the entire way through what
was know formerly as Queen Maud Land. Base 211 was carved into a cave
complex similar to Nordhausen and supplied by transport subs,
components of which even the Type XXVI were taken. SS Antartic troops
maintained the base.



Never heard of a U-boat base being given a number. No Type XXVI was ever
built in the war. Work only started on it, late in the war so how is it
suppose to be available in 1939? Nor is SS Antartic listed in a
complete list of every SS-Divisionen formed during WWII.

Base 211 is often referenced as a code-name for the entire Antarctic
program and disc connection.

It is a very unusual German designation.

Try "Station 211", it was sometimes referred to as that.

And why WOULD a secret SS battalion be
listed among the combat divisions?

I did not just check combat divisions! I looked at all. I also looked at
the units that we have little references and that *may* have existed.
Nothing like it. By the way German military records are very good.

Generally so... except for those destroyed on purpose and of course
those captured by the Allies and compartmentalized by various
intelligence agencies.

Generally if it was an SS battalion it would be so designated eg
SS-Ausbildungs-Battalion or SS-Wirtschafts-Battalion but not always.



The SS E-IV technical branch is
barely known along with the Black Sun SS religious Order, the DHvSS,
and the SS archeological unit that went to South America and Tibet...
among other places searching for sacred relics.

It was listed as SS Tibet mission which would make sense in this context
in other words it would not a military unit as such at all.


You really need to skip basic SS history and read up on the occult
aspects of the Third Reich before opening your mouth. You probably
aren't even aware that the Nazi Party (NSDAP) originated from the
occult Thule/Vril Gesellschafts from way back to 1917. Before that
Thule came from the German Order (aka Order of Teutons) of 1912 and
was also known as the "Luminous Lodge"- directly connected to the
Illuminati.

I think we know of the Thule society here.

That's what makes all of this hard to deal with; the entire Third
Reich cannot be seperated from the occult, its symbolism, its mission,
and its plans for ultimate control over the planet.
Most people don't even recognize the swastika (Hakenkreuz) for what it
symbolizes- the black sun wheel that Thule and Vril worshipped. A dark
violet sun with dark powers. Vril is also the shortened version of
Vri-il "Like God". At the heart of all this is the worship of pure
evil.

Hitler had little interest in this sort of stuff.

Sorry to make you look absolutely stupid but Hitler and the senior
Nazi leadership were Thule members. Hitler believed in the "Hollow
Earth" theory, alien Aryans from Aldebaran, the Black Sun, etc... and
had his own psychics that guided his war-making decisions. You are
completely wrong there. The ultimate goal of Hitler and the Nazis was
to repopulate the earth with Aryan superhumans through eugenics and
rebuild Berlin into some form of Nazi occult mecca. BTW, Hitler DID
seize one occult object in 1938- the Spear of Destiny from Vienna. The
myth was that whomever was at power and possessed the Spear (that
pierced Christ's side) would rule the world. When US troops recovered
the Spear on April 30, 1945 Hitler comitted suicide within the hour.
It was Gen. Patton that restored the Spear to Vienna where it still
resides in a museum.

Anyway, Base 211 is interesting to speculate on but no one could reach
it on land. Only a submarine could get there if the location was
known. I wonder if the US or USSR ever tried to find it in the trench?
The Germans probably mined the hell out of the area.

You cannot find what does not exist.

Admirable Byrd sent a military task force to find it in 1947 (the first available antarctic summer) and ended up losing men and aircraft, being turned back after mere weeks when provision for fighting had been for 8 months.

Rob


Rob

(B2431) wrote in message ...
From: (robert arndt)


I'll give you another example comparison between US and German tech
from 1945.
Had the war gone on just until the fall of 1945 the German soldier
would have had: a new M44 stalhelm, M44 Liebermuster camouflage (which
contained carbon and IR defeating dyes), the STG-45 assault rifle, the
Pzf 150 AT weapon, and Nipolit formed disc grenades.
Now compare that with the shabby US Army soldier with the old M-1 and
a Bazooka.

Rob

And if the war had just lasted 6 months longer you still would have lost and
have been the target of at least 2 atomic bombs. Get over it, you were defeated
by Russians, Brits, Americans etc in shabby uniforms, M1s and bolt action
rifles who would not have been there if you hadn't started the war in the first
place. All your wonder weapons wouldn't have staved off defeat. Your "leaders"
would still have suicided. Your country was in ruins politically, morally,
economically and militarily.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

Mr. Dan,

Do you hate Germany?

If it wasn't for the unfair Treaty of Versailles restrictions and
repayments there probably wouldn't have been a war in 1939. Before
that it was everyone with their various alliances and pacts that
marched off to the Great War for glory. Germany, however, gets the
total blame for the war.

Why? Because Germany backed Austria and by military necessity had to
violate Belgium's neutrality to achieve its war aims? As for the
Lusitania incident the Germans were kind enough (in war) to post
notices advising passengers of enemy liners that they risked being
sunk by U-boat in the present war situation. They lost their lives
because they did not heed that posted warning besides the fact the
ship was illegally carrying armaments.

Before that Mr.Dan, Great Britain didn't want a competing superpower
on the high seas. As Imperial Germany and the Kaiser built up his
Great White Fleet the idea of future war with Germany was already
there at the turn of the 20th century.

So stop blaming Germany for the cause of the wars. Many peoples and
nations conspired to march off into battle. Germany gets the full
weight of the blame however since they lost.

I do not make excuses for the Holocaust nor any other German atrocity
but you must look within the context of the other warring powers which
committed similar atrocities against other nations, races, and
cultures for several hundreds of years. In Russia's case, even against
their own peoples.

I've said enough. Please consider what you are saying historically.

Erich Adler

"Eunometic" wrote in message
om...
Bernardz wrote in message
news:MPG.1a9b8d33930402ad9898f6@news...
In article ,
says...
Some say the technology came from an alien UFO that crashed near
Freiberg in 1936 and was taken to Himmler's castle at Wewelsberg,
reverse engineered. Nevertheless, Thule and Vril continued development
of these RFZ (RundFlugZeug) with models 1-6 up to 1939. By the start
of the war Vril had their own designs of which the often-quoted V-7 is
mentioned. This is a mislabel as it is not part of the

The designation V-1, V-2 etc was not used till late in the war.

The designation V was for "Versuchs" the German word for experimental.
Most german protduction aircraft had up to 30-100 V series aircraft

This is incorrect. V as it related to the V-1 buzz bomb and V-2 rocket was
for "Vergeileitung" (sp?) which translantes into "Vengeance." Meant to
retaliate for bombing raids on Hamburg, Berlin, etc.

The V-designation was applied to the V-1 cruise missile, the V-2 rocket, and
the V-3 cannon project which was never completed. There were other guided
missiles, bombs, etc. that were developed but they did not have
V-designations. (The missiles used to sink the Italian battleship Roma, for
isntance, or the Wasserfall surface to air missile concept.) Before
recieving the "V-2" designation, Dr. Von Braun's rocket was known as the
A-4.

As for the UFO stuff, it is nonsense. The proponents invariably post some
sort of cock and bull talem then ask people to prove it wrong. The onus of
proof is on them, and they try to avoid that because they have none. I mean,
if I were a German strategic type in 1945 and I had some super-craft, I'd
darn sure want to use it. Maybe against, say, the Russians? I mean they
would have had a lot of motivation there.

DEP

"Keith Willshaw" wrote in message
...

"robert arndt" wrote in message
om...


Well said. Three cheers for the guy with a brain!
I'll give you another example comparison between US and German tech
from 1945.
Had the war gone on just until the fall of 1945 the German soldier
would have had: a new M44 stalhelm, M44 Liebermuster camouflage (which
contained carbon and IR defeating dyes), the STG-45 assault rifle, the
Pzf 150 AT weapon, and Nipolit formed disc grenades.

Reliant on horse drawn vehicles for resupply.

Very true - and the US Garand was a good gun. The M3 Grease Gun and Tommy
gun were no slouches for urban fighting. And the M-1 Carbine was a sort of
step towards what we now call an "assault rifle." The British of course had
the Bren, Sten, and Enfield. ISTR the Germans also had G43 rifles, in 7.92
Mauser, but it would have been Volkssturm vs. US Army, British Army units
that had fought since North Africa, and the Red Army that had started the
drive at Stalingrad.

The most shocking thing for most British soldiers when they closed
the Falaise gap was to discover that most German army units
were totally reliant on horse and cart to deliver supplies
from the railhead. Every British Infantry division had been
motorised since 1945 and they also realised that while the
SS might be well supplied with weapons and material
the average Wermacht soldier had to walk into battle on his
own two legs, was armed with the 5 shot bolt action
Karabiner 98k rifle of 1898 vintage and WW1 designed
hand grenades. The Panzershreck was of course inspired
by the Bazooka

True. The Allies had taken mechanized resupply to levels Guderian would have
loved. Red Ball express and all. Plus the massive aerial resupply abilities.

Had they managed to survive into 1945 without being Nuked
the Germans would have been facing large numbers
of M-26 and Centurion battle tanks which were
superior to anything they had and fleets of the new US and
British jet fighters. Germany was on the wrong side of the
arms production curve from 1942 onwards. There was no
other way to go than down.

True, and while Germany's leadership was considering Hitler Youth as pilots
for those jets, US and British pilots with experience equipped with Meteors
and P-80 Shooting Stars (Or Bell P-59s) would have had the edge in
experience. There weren't a lot of guys like Adolf Galland left flying by
the end of the war. I seem to recall that the Luftwaffe never ran out of
planes. Pilots were another matter.

Keith

"M. Santoro" wrote in message
om...
Except, of course, for the fact that the US along with its allies won
the war.

Then again, the US possessed overwhelming technological superiority in
Vietnam, and still lost.

So what's your point? Mine is that being "technologically" superior
doesn't win wars. If war is an extension of politics by other (more
violent) means (as per Clausewitzl, Lenin and Mao), it's will that
matters. With that in mind, the lessons of both WWII and Vietnam have
already been written. The lessons of ongoing conflicts have yet to be
discerned.

I'd also argue that no nation is superior "in all areas." Certainly
not when we're talking about a conflict that ended nearly 60 years
ago, and in favor of the technologically "inferior" side. When
discussing the merits or deficiencies of US military power, please
choose a more current subject. There are, after all, plenty more
current episodes to choose from.

- M.S.

The Allies were not technically inferior. Look at the Russian Stalin Organ,
Soviet T-34 Tank, US B-29 Bomber, Allied High-Test gasoline, Allied Carrier
design and aircraft, the advanced concept of the Sten as far as
manufacturing, and of course the most advanced weapon of the war - the
Atomic Bomb.

The Allies were far from technically inferior.

From: (robert arndt)

Bernardz

I did not just check combat divisions! I looked at all. I also looked at
the units that we have little references and that *may* have existed.
Nothing like it. By the way German military records are very good.

Generally so... except for those destroyed on purpose and of course
those captured by the Allies and compartmentalized by various
intelligence agencies.

How inconvienient, no way to prove your assertions.

Most people don't even recognize the swastika (Hakenkreuz) for what it
symbolizes- the black sun wheel that Thule and Vril worshipped.

Most people are fully aware the swastika has been used by many people included
American Indians, Africans, the Romans etc.


Anyway, Base 211 is interesting to speculate on but no one could reach
it on land. Only a submarine could get there if the location was
known. I wonder if the US or USSR ever tried to find it in the trench?
The Germans probably mined the hell out of the area.

You cannot find what does not exist.


OK, so how was this "base" found in the first place? No submarine commander
would ever deliberately take his boat into an underwater cave so it couldn't be
from looking for it. Did space aliens come to Earth, decide the Nazis really
were the master race and show them where it was?

Dan, U. S. Air Force, retired