JWGC USA update

Even Canada , really

Very interesting to read your thought and concerns regarding tasks.

US looks completely different from Europe. Here(in Europe) do we mainly (almost only) fly the Assigned Speed Task (AST, speed over given distance) and the Assigned Area Task(AAT, distance over given time in defined areas, recalculated to speed) defined by the IGC Sporting Code. Different pilots has different preferences regarding the two tasks, but if the CD calls out to many AAT will definitely the AST-guys complain loud. I guess that the long term is the ratio between AST:AAT close to 1:1. In a single competition is it more AST if the weather is good and homogeneous and more AAT in unstable conditions with predicted showers. Never or seldom does the CD calls for AAT to reduce the out landings in the big competitions, maybe in the smaller ones. There is a long tradition in Europe to fly AST, and when we fly AAT do we want the areas to be reasonable small (5-15km). To some extent do we actually fly to little AAT at the top level to be prepared for the WGC, the opposite as you describe for the US pilots.

There is a long winter ahead
/Per, G7

at 13.5 Worlds, Francois and I's best result was on one of the 2 AAT days (1st and 2nd). Perhaps it was all the practice

I had a lot of fun crewing for JP. Our guys did a nice job flying together and it was a lot of fun to watch them. Invaluable experience. On to Lithuania!

Per Carlin,

That is very interesting indeed. Clearly may European pilots arriv at the various world championships quite battle hardened and well prepared. No question there.

Thanks for sharing.

Sean

On Wednesday, December 16, 2015 at 12:31:58 AM UTC-5, Sean Fidler wrote:


Blame it on the CDs? No. I certainly do not. Talk to the CDs? I do and they have responded to encouragement in some cases. I am thankful for this, but it's only been at nationals really. I'll run the numbers soon. I suspect it was only a 2% increase at best.


Cheerio,

Sean

A suggestion from the last guy to call an Assigned Task at a US contest...

Why not advertise Region 6 as a "mostly AT" contest this year (that is your region,right?). Couldn't hurt to have some real data on whether that effects participation, pilot satisfaction, etc.


Erik Mann
P3

OK...Ill bite.

I actually already have! Check out this AMAZING website. www.sgp.aero/usa2016 - The FIRST EVER FAI Sailplane Grand Prix USA 2016 to be held next July 24th -31st. It has been sold out for many months now...

Numerous top ranked FAI pilots will be traveling to the USA next summer (more internation pilots than have been to the USA, for a non world championship event, in a VERY long time I imagine...). Pilots from Australia, Germany, Britain, etc. Over 10 of these international competitors (not including Canada) have applied to fly our FAI Sailplane Grand Prix USA. Unfortunatly, per the FAI SGP rules, only 5 international competitors will be accepted (of 20 total pilots in the contest). Wow. Imagine that. Top international pilots signing up for a US contest in Ionia, MI! An assigned task only contest clearly creating STRONG demand for top international pilots to travel to Ionia, MI USA and fly an assigned task only contest. An assinged task only event (in the USA!) which was sold out and significantly overbooked OVER A YEAR BEFOR THE CONTEST BEGINS! Hmmm. I wonder why that could be?

We also have almost 25 US and Canadian pilots in the que. They are in the process of being widdled down to the max of 15 based on SSA rankings (becuase the SSA stoped maintaining the FAI information...sigh)

Clearly, there is strong demand for ASSIGNED TASKS in the USA. Perhaps even more demand would exist if SGP USA was hosted by a more exotic location.

Personally I would rather do a grand prix match race with one other glider friend in Ionia than go to a regional contest that will only run timed, wide area TAT "weather skill" tasks. Hell, I would rather practice an assigned task by myself (something I do all the time) or try a state record flight than go to a TAT, MAT only contest. In all my contests over the last 5 years, I think I have only done 5-6 assinged tasks. I am SICK of timed, area tasks. I am probably not alone..............

I hear you. Many cry (like children at times) about assigned tasks (even though we very rarely run them at all). Some phycisally cower when assigned tasks are even "hinted at" even if the weather forecast is enormously good.. Its amazing how fearful many seem to be. Just because many protest against or threaten not to attend a contests if assigned tasks are possible does not make them justified in their strong resistance. I think assigned task (rather than just going to the best weather) make pilots better cross country pilots. I think they gave great value to newer cross country pilots. I think flying only to the best weather makes a pilot quite weak at certain areas. Assigned tasks are very rewarding and yes, sometimes, difficult. You might even land out once in awhile. So what. There is a reason they do 50% ASTs at major contests wordwide. I think an "assigned tasks lives matter" T shirt is coming! ;-)

I believe that we should strive to have at least 20% assigned tasks in the USA, not 3%. Still a small fraction (20% vs. 50%) of general international levels, but nearly 7x more than are run in the US today. There is good value, as a country, to remaining proficient in assigned tasks. We cannot purely focus on broad weather strategy, computer management task. And it is a total misconception that this value is only for the US team pilots who have to go to world championships where 50% of the task are likely to be AST.

Im really getting tired of this conversation. But I think its a important one.

The USA runs 3% NOT TIMED TASKS and 97% timed tasks. Say that 10 times for me. This is undisputed data and is not proportional to the desires of all US glider pilots, despite what the pollsters are trying to sell us.

Sean

OK, back on topic...... ;-)

I say, "Congrats to the Junior pilots, team members, suppliers, helpers, etc., job well done".

I will also be looking for some of the "war stories" of flights.

I'm very aware of the work you're doing on the Grand Prix idea. It's freakin' fantastic!

My point is just that we need to balance our objectives. The typical "low-key regionals" has a very varied level of pilot abilities and ambitions. Maybe we need to promote some contests as more AT-heavy and see what happens..

A side thought. I set up the Fairfield regionals this year with a "Gold Class" and a "Silver Class" rather than traditional equipment-based lines. It was clearly stated that the Gold Class would use more ambitious tasking, and it's where I called the Assigned Task (1 out of 4, so only 25%) and a long MAT that was supposed to be just about an Assigned Task (but the weather was actually even better than forecast, so people had more optional time than optimal).

Perhaps that approach in some smaller regionals might be better than having 3 small classes split by span/type? State that the Gold Class will use more ambitious tasking and more ATs.

Just a thought.

P3


On Thursday, December 17, 2015 at 1:20:08 AM UTC-5, Sean Fidler wrote:
OK...Ill bite.

I actually already have! Check out this AMAZING website. www.sgp.aero/usa2016 - The FIRST EVER FAI Sailplane Grand Prix USA 2016 to be held next July 24th -31st. It has been sold out for many months now...

Numerous top ranked FAI pilots will be traveling to the USA next summer (more internation pilots than have been to the USA, for a non world championship event, in a VERY long time I imagine...). Pilots from Australia, Germany, Britain, etc. Over 10 of these international competitors (not including Canada) have applied to fly our FAI Sailplane Grand Prix USA. Unfortunatly, per the FAI SGP rules, only 5 international competitors will be accepted (of 20 total pilots in the contest). Wow. Imagine that. Top international pilots signing up for a US contest in Ionia, MI! An assigned task only contest clearly creating STRONG demand for top international pilots to travel to Ionia, MI USA and fly an assigned task only contest. An assinged task only event (in the USA!) which was sold out and significantly overbooked OVER A YEAR BEFOR THE CONTEST BEGINS! Hmmm. I wonder why that could be?

We also have almost 25 US and Canadian pilots in the que. They are in the process of being widdled down to the max of 15 based on SSA rankings (becuase the SSA stoped maintaining the FAI information...sigh)

Clearly, there is strong demand for ASSIGNED TASKS in the USA. Perhaps even more demand would exist if SGP USA was hosted by a more exotic location..

Personally I would rather do a grand prix match race with one other glider friend in Ionia than go to a regional contest that will only run timed, wide area TAT "weather skill" tasks. Hell, I would rather practice an assigned task by myself (something I do all the time) or try a state record flight than go to a TAT, MAT only contest. In all my contests over the last 5 years, I think I have only done 5-6 assinged tasks. I am SICK of timed, area tasks. I am probably not alone..............

I hear you. Many cry (like children at times) about assigned tasks (even though we very rarely run them at all). Some phycisally cower when assigned tasks are even "hinted at" even if the weather forecast is enormously good. Its amazing how fearful many seem to be. Just because many protest against or threaten not to attend a contests if assigned tasks are possible does not make them justified in their strong resistance. I think assigned task (rather than just going to the best weather) make pilots better cross country pilots. I think they gave great value to newer cross country pilots.. I think flying only to the best weather makes a pilot quite weak at certain areas. Assigned tasks are very rewarding and yes, sometimes, difficult.. You might even land out once in awhile. So what. There is a reason they do 50% ASTs at major contests wordwide. I think an "assigned tasks lives matter" T shirt is coming! ;-)

I believe that we should strive to have at least 20% assigned tasks in the USA, not 3%. Still a small fraction (20% vs. 50%) of general international levels, but nearly 7x more than are run in the US today. There is good value, as a country, to remaining proficient in assigned tasks. We cannot purely focus on broad weather strategy, computer management task. And it is a total misconception that this value is only for the US team pilots who have to go to world championships where 50% of the task are likely to be AST.

Im really getting tired of this conversation. But I think its a important one.

The USA runs 3% NOT TIMED TASKS and 97% timed tasks. Say that 10 times for me. This is undisputed data and is not proportional to the desires of all US glider pilots, despite what the pollsters are trying to sell us.

Sean

This Thread http://giphy.com/gifs/my-brilliance-dead-horse-KqLPb0IrGHwiY

On 12/16/2015 11:20 PM, Sean Fidler wrote:
OK...Ill bite.

I actually already have! Check out this AMAZING website. www.sgp.aero/usa2016 - The FIRST EVER FAI Sailplane Grand Prix USA 2016 to be held next July 24th -31st. It has been sold out for many months now...

Numerous top ranked FAI pilots will be traveling to the USA next summer (more internation pilots than have been to the USA, for a non world championship event, in a VERY long time I imagine...). Pilots from Australia, Germany, Britain, etc. Over 10 of these international competitors (not including Canada) have applied to fly our FAI Sailplane Grand Prix USA. Unfortunatly, per the FAI SGP rules, only 5 international competitors will be accepted (of 20 total pilots in the contest). Wow. Imagine that. Top international pilots signing up for a US contest in Ionia, MI! An assigned task only contest clearly creating STRONG demand for top international pilots to travel to Ionia, MI USA and fly an assigned task only contest. An assinged task only event (in the USA!) which was sold out and significantly overbooked OVER A YEAR BEFOR THE CONTEST BEGINS! Hmmm. I wonder why that could be?

We also have almost 25 US and Canadian pilots in the que. They are in the process of being widdled down to the max of 15 based on SSA rankings (becuase the SSA stoped maintaining the FAI information...sigh)

Clearly, there is strong demand for ASSIGNED TASKS in the USA. Perhaps even more demand would exist if SGP USA was hosted by a more exotic location.

Personally I would rather do a grand prix match race with one other glider friend in Ionia than go to a regional contest that will only run timed, wide area TAT "weather skill" tasks. Hell, I would rather practice an assigned task by myself (something I do all the time) or try a state record flight than go to a TAT, MAT only contest. In all my contests over the last 5 years, I think I have only done 5-6 assinged tasks. I am SICK of timed, area tasks. I am probably not alone..............

I hear you. Many cry (like children at times) about assigned tasks (even though we very rarely run them at all). Some phycisally cower when assigned tasks are even "hinted at" even if the weather forecast is enormously good. Its amazing how fearful many seem to be. Just because many protest against or threaten not to attend a contests if assigned tasks are possible does not make them justified in their strong resistance. I think assigned task (rather than just going to the best weather) make pilots better cross country pilots. I think they gave great value to newer cross country pilots. I think flying only to the best weather makes a pilot quite weak at certain areas. Assigned tasks are very rewarding and yes, sometimes, difficult. You might even land out once in awhile. So what. There is a reason they do 50% ASTs at major contests wordwide. I think an "assigned tasks lives matter" T shirt is coming! ;-)

I believe that we should strive to have at least 20% assigned tasks in the USA, not 3%. Still a small fraction (20% vs. 50%) of general international levels, but nearly 7x more than are run in the US today. There is good value, as a country, to remaining proficient in assigned tasks. We cannot purely focus on broad weather strategy, computer management task. And it is a total misconception that this value is only for the US team pilots who have to go to world championships where 50% of the task are likely to be AST.

Im really getting tired of this conversation. But I think its a important one.

The USA runs 3% NOT TIMED TASKS and 97% timed tasks. Say that 10 times for me. This is undisputed data and is not proportional to the desires of all US glider pilots, despite what the pollsters are trying to sell us.

Sean

--
Dan, 5J

A side thought. I set up the Fairfield regionals this year with a "Gold Class" and a "Silver Class" rather than traditional equipment-based lines. It was clearly stated that the Gold Class would use more ambitious tasking, and it's where I called the Assigned Task (1 out of 4, so only 25%) and a long MAT that was supposed to be just about an Assigned Task (but the weather was actually even better than forecast, so people had more optional time than optimal).

Perhaps that approach in some smaller regionals might be better than having 3 small classes split by span/type? State that the Gold Class will use more ambitious tasking and more ATs.


In Ballieau in France they do 3 classes:

Beginners, Speed and Distance

The beginners class is focused on easy tasks manageable for low experience levels.

The speed class is focused on flying shorter tasks during the best part of the day

The long distance class focuses on doing maximum distance, launching early and landing late.

Of course all classes focus primarily on assigned speed tasks, weather permitting. Area tasks are not particulary popular in Europe.

http://2015.planeur-bailleau.org/ind...al-information