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#51
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#52
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In article ,
Alan Minyard writes: On Mon, 08 Sep 2003 05:49:38 -0400, Cub Driver wrote: I said it wasn't the stuff of legend. i.e. not particularly memorable. That's a long way from attacking them. That's not the way I read it. I saw mockery for the Cowboy pilots and sons of the elite, riding herd on Cuban invaders. I think that a) you are back-pedaling, b) you seize any opportunity to run down the incumbent prezdint, and c) you really don't care squat about F-102s or the men who flew them. Often in the cocktail parties I attend, I hear the Good People being shocked--shocked!--that Bush failed to attend the last year's meetings of the Guard. These are of course the same people who would rise up with dignity and leave any room which a military officer had the ill manners to enter. You need to find some higher quality cocktail parties to attend. Dan lives in a College Town. It might not be the People's Republic of Berkeley, but some of the attitudes are still there. (I was born on Gasoline Alley, so I can say that) Dan, are the Good People still Up in Arms and Pointing With Alarm that the resurgent Bear population (Ursine, not Soviet) are finding their bir feeders and garbage cans a convenient supermarket? You'd think that those Greeney Folks would like getting close to Cuddly Nature. (Well, as long as it's the squirrels. If it's big enough to invite _you_ to dinner, it seems to be different) -- Pete Stickney A strong conviction that something must be done is the parent of many bad measures. -- Daniel Webster |
#53
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In article ,
av8r writes: Hi Peter Any and all constructive nitpicking is welcome. I do not have the exact date, but sometime in August of 1962, the U.S. Navy sent a five AD-5Q (EA-IF) Skyraider detachment from VAW-13 to Tan Son Nhut. While there, the five-aircraft interceptor team, alternated with detachments from the 509th FIS. It was a learning process for theme as they practiced the best methods od identifying airborne intruders. The deployments which were under operational control of COMUSMACV ranged from August to September, 1962; January to February, 1964 and finally during November of 1963. Hmm, As I understand it, the Australians were also present as well, flying Avon Sabres. Do you have anything on their activities? Speaking of the F-102, it got down to 40 and 50 below up in Goose Bay quite often. The sound of the A/B kicking in on a cold day or even colder night was deafening. It used to rattle all the dishes in the china cabinet of our married quarters. It could really get off the ground in a short distance on cold days as well. Yepper. I've heard some amazing tales about the performance boost that cold weather gives a jet from some of the Canadian CF-101 drivers. At 50 below, the Voodoo really gets up & goes. -- Pete Stickney A strong conviction that something must be done is the parent of many bad measures. -- Daniel Webster |
#54
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The February '91 issue of Wings has a cover photo of two camouflaged
F-102s in a revetment, and an article called "Unsheathing the Dagger," about the F-102 in Vietnam. Author Warren Thompson says the 509th FIS at Clark AB got orders to deploy on the morning of 5 August 1964. Within 2 1/2 hours they had four planes at Danang, "making the 509th the first fighter squadron to deploy aircraft to Vietnam following the Gulf of Tonkin incident." There are some interesting war stories in the article. One describes hunting VC at night with the IRST. It was "an excellent piece of equipment," according to a former pilot, able to track a guy smoking a cigarette from 30,000 feet. They would detect campfires and fire IR missiles at them, then follow up with radar missiles visually aimed at the explosions. Another pilot thought the F-102's dozen 2.75 inch rockets were better (but not much better) than its AIM-4s, which he called "of little value against ground targets." However, on one of his missions they fired AIM-4s unguided and saved a downed aircrew from capture. Somebody asked about the F-102 accident rate. Statistics for current and retired USAF aircraft are he http://afsafety.af.mil/AFSC/RDBMS/Fl...aft_stats.html (Javascript must be enabled for the page to work.) -- Paul Hirose |
#55
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In article ,
Alan Minyard writes: On Sun, 07 Sep 2003 17:43:17 -0400, av8r wrote: Hi Peter The first operational deployment to Viet by F-102's was actually on the 21st of March 1962. Deuces of the 509th FIS deployed to Tan Son Nhut. They returned 8 days later on the 29th. For the next year during Water Glass ops, they rotated every six weeks with U.S. Navy AD5Q's. Project Bell Tone 1 commenced in December 1960 with six F-100D's of the 510th TFS were deployed to Don Muang Airport. They were replaced by six F-102A's of the 509th FIS nine months later. Peter, let's keep this thread going if possible. It's extremely interesting. Are you interested in F-102 losses in country? I used to love watching the F-102's of the 59th FIS roaring around while I was at Goose Bay, Labrador (June 64-June 67). The odd time a Deuce of the 57th FIS would come down from Kef for a visit. Lots of good Bear hunting back in those days too. Cheers...Chris Does anyone know what the accidental lose rate for the -102 was? I have heard that it was pretty high, which for an early single engine delta is easy to believe. Check out the USAF Safety Office at: http://afsafety.af.mil/AFSC/RDBMS/Fl...aft_stats.html They've got stats on all manner of stuff, from 1950 on, ranging, with some holes, from F-47s to the F-22, and all manner of types in between. According to them, the F-102 had a lifetime Class A accident rate of 13.69/100K flight hours, with 357 Class A accidents between 1953 (first loss), to 1981 (last loss) For a bit of context, here are some of the other fighter's lifelim numbers for the Class A rate: F-84 52.86 F-86 44.18 F-89 24.54 F-100 21.22 F-101 14.65 F-102 13.69 F-104 30.63 F-105 17.83 F-106 9.47 F-4 4.64 F-5 8.82 F-15 2.47 F-16 4.19 The Century Series and later numbers don't include combat losses. I can't tell if that's the case for the F-84 adn F-86. It ought to be noted that in 2 years of service, about half of all teh F-84s built had been written off. -- Pete Stickney A strong conviction that something must be done is the parent of many bad measures. -- Daniel Webster |
#57
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Dan, are the Good People still Up in Arms and Pointing With Alarm that the resurgent Bear population I haven't heard anything about bears lately, but most every year we have a moose sighting. Is there a plaque on Gasoline Alley to mark your birthplace? all the best -- Dan Ford email: www.danford.net/letters.htm#9 see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com |
#58
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Was no longer a "first line aircraft"? Uhmmm...care to guess when the last F-102's left active duty? When? 1976 in U.S. service. Greece and Turkey also had a few, and perhaps ran them longer. all the best -- Dan Ford email: www.danford.net/letters.htm#9 see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com |
#59
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Jeez...you're reading waaaay too much into Scott's posts IMO. I read the post pretty much the same way. Nor has he softened his implications any in his followup, only saluted a few times toward the active-service veterans. Does anyone seriously believe that Scott or anyone else would care a fig about the F-102 and the Texas Air Guard except as a way to denigrate the rather remarkable accomplishment of the incumbent prezdint--who is, after all, the first pilot of a supersonic fighter (or interceptor, if that helps you choke back the tears) to hold the office? I recently changed my party affiliation to Unaffiliated. I was asked: "Does this mean you have developed reservations about Mr. Bush?" Actually, I've always had reservations about Mr. Bush, father and son. But to scoff at the latter's academic (Andover, Yale, Harvard Business School) or military (two years on active duty as a jet jockey--a fact that seems to go unmentioned when his ANG service is under discussion--followed by however many years in the Guard) is just plain comical. all the best -- Dan Ford email: www.danford.net/letters.htm#9 see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com |
#60
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Kevin cool your jets pardner...the title of this thread is what? Now you're being ridiculous. The title of the thread has nothing to do with the discussion, and it was Scott's post that moved it into its present territory. If he didn't mean to do that, he can always apologize and set the record straight. all the best -- Dan Ford email: www.danford.net/letters.htm#9 see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com |
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