How safe is it, really?

Aviv Hod wrote:

I too am thankful for all that has
allowed me to delight in the freedom of flight.

GA permitted my (2.25 year-old) son to spend more time with his cousins this
past weekend, and also permitted him to avoid several hours locked in a car
seat. That's a very concrete value for which we're all grateful.

- Andrew

"C Kingsbury" wrote in message
nk.net...
"June" wrote in message
om...

Your opinions would be appreciated.


One of my partners has a 4 year-old daughter who loves to go flying with
him. Obviously he (and more significantly his ex-wife) find the risks
acceptable.

There is risk the minute you get up off the couch. Come to think of it, if
you don't get off the couch, there is a risk you'll die young of heart
disease and diabetes. The fact is that nobody gets out of this life alive.
Flying does involve more risks than, say, carpentry, but as pilots we can
choose to control our risks and avoid many things that increase them.

In my experience people who have the flying "bug" bad enough to actually
make it through the rigmarole of getting a license are a breed apart.
They're all kinds of people- rich, poor, old men, young women, every race
and religion out there, but somewhere along the line we all got a little
chunk of the sky stuck inside us. Dig into his urge to fly and you'll
probably find pieces of the things that made you decide to spend the rest
of
your life with him. Are you sure that you want to ask him to suppress
this?
There is so much sadness and tragedy in life that doesn't make the papers.
None of us truly know the number of our days, and we owe it to ourselves
and
our loved ones to live each present moment with joy and gratitude. For me,
part of that is thankfulness that I was born in the century in which two
bicycle mechanics from Dayton realized an ancient dream, and in a nation
where I, a person of average means, could turn that dream into reality.

Best,
-cwk.


Very well said...

Jay B

News outlets seem to focus on small plane crashes for reasons I've
never understood. When was the last time you saw an article in your
local paper about a car crash 100 miles away even though they occur
frequently?

The instrument rating will make your husband a much better pilot
because of the precision required in flying with instruments.

You can also form your own opinion about his attitude about safety.
If he's meticulous about planning and checking the aircraft before
flight, he will be ahead of the motorcycle odds. The major cause of
engine failure in small airplanes is running out of fuel, which is a
highly predictable event.

PaulH wrote:

News outlets seem to focus on small plane crashes for reasons I've
never understood.

Because if it happens frequently, it's not news. They concentrate on them
because crashes don't happen very often.

George Patterson
If a man gets into a fight 3,000 miles away from home, he *had* to have
been looking for it.

Also plane crashes are newsworthy because something bad has happened to
"good" people. I.e., us, friends.

Let's step way back for the big picture view, drop the customary caution,
and say it: airplane people are from the top drawer of society. We are
successful enough to afford flying, smart enough to be able to learn it, and
persistent enough to see it through. If it were high school, we're in the
top 1% of the class. Not too many crack whores out on the flight line.

So, there is melodrama and entertainment value in a news tory where, for
example, a dentist and his family make a smoking hole in the ground on
Thanksgiving. A gazillion other people from all walks of life also bought
it on Thanksgiving in an untold number of mundane ways, but if it happened
to one of us, it was news.



"G.R. Patterson III" wrote in message
...


PaulH wrote:

News outlets seem to focus on small plane crashes for reasons I've
never understood.

Because if it happens frequently, it's not news. They concentrate on them
because crashes don't happen very often.

George Patterson
If a man gets into a fight 3,000 miles away from home, he *had* to
have
been looking for it.

Here is my opinion, for what it it worth. The safety of flying is very
dependent upon the quality of the pilot. Compared to driving a car for
example, if some nutcase headed in the opposite direction decides to
reach for his beer, your skills as a driver are not worth much.

In an airplane you are many times more likely to be a victim of your
own stupidity/carelessness/ignorance you name it. On the other hand
a cautious pilot is generally not subjected to the degree of idiocy
one experiences on the road on a daily basis. Therefore I feel flying
is safer for careful and conciencous pilots than driving.

I would say that having an IFR rating and several hundred hours of
flying experience (both in VFR and IFR) has a tendency to make someone
a better pilot than one without. But there is no substitute for experience
and you have to get there from somewhere. The best pilots tend to be
a bit meticulous and even a bit anal about their airplanes and flight
preparations. Overconfidence is not a virtue in aviation.

You really need to apply the same criteria to judging the quality of
a pilot that you would for most things in life.

June wrote:
I need some information from people 'in the field'. My husband has
his private license and is just starting to work on his IFR for
recreational flying. He wants to buy into a plane partnership, saying
he will be saving money rather than renting.

We have 2 little girls. I worry for his safety as it seems there is
another small plane crash every other time you turn on the news. I
think he should focus on this hobby when the kids are older, not when
he has such a young family.

Your opinions would be appreciated.

"kontiki" wrote in message
...
Here is my opinion, for what it it worth. The safety of flying is very
dependent upon the quality of the pilot. Compared to driving a car for
example, if some nutcase headed in the opposite direction decides to
reach for his beer, your skills as a driver are not worth much.

In an airplane you are many times more likely to be a victim of your
own stupidity/carelessness/ignorance you name it. On the other hand
a cautious pilot is generally not subjected to the degree of idiocy
one experiences on the road on a daily basis. Therefore I feel flying
is safer for careful and conciencous pilots than driving.


You may feel safer but there is no evidence to support your feeling and a
lot to refute it. GA has well over 100 times the fatal accident rate of
airlines and about 10 time the fatal rate of driving. Personal flying ( as
opposed to business, corporate or flight training) has an even higher risk
than the average GA rate. Even if you remove all the pilot error accidents,
personal flying is still much more dangerous than driving.

Mike
MU-2

I think you also have to focus on the safety risks of different kinds of
"driving." A Sunday morning drive on a deserted country lane is quite safe.
Anywhere close to a high school at 4 pm on a school day is like Russian
roulette.

Big city freeways, when not at a standstill, are congested, high speed,
tailgating, free-for-alls. I am sure my flying in my plane is safer than my
driving on my city freeways. I have to drive about 20 miles on those
freeways to get to my airport, and always breathe a sigh of relief that the
dangerous part is over when I pull onto the airport ramp. Statistics are
relevant to me only if the sample is of people very close to people like me
taking risks like mine. It is quite possible that for many of us, our
driving is more dangerous than our flying.



"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
ink.net...

"kontiki" wrote in message
...
Here is my opinion, for what it it worth. The safety of flying is very
dependent upon the quality of the pilot. Compared to driving a car for
example, if some nutcase headed in the opposite direction decides to
reach for his beer, your skills as a driver are not worth much.

In an airplane you are many times more likely to be a victim of your
own stupidity/carelessness/ignorance you name it. On the other hand
a cautious pilot is generally not subjected to the degree of idiocy
one experiences on the road on a daily basis. Therefore I feel flying
is safer for careful and conciencous pilots than driving.


You may feel safer but there is no evidence to support your feeling and a
lot to refute it. GA has well over 100 times the fatal accident rate of
airlines and about 10 time the fatal rate of driving. Personal flying (
as opposed to business, corporate or flight training) has an even higher
risk than the average GA rate. Even if you remove all the pilot error
accidents, personal flying is still much more dangerous than driving.

Mike
MU-2

"Dan Thompson" wrote in message
. com...
I think you also have to focus on the safety risks of different kinds of
"driving." A Sunday morning drive on a deserted country lane is quite
safe.
Anywhere close to a high school at 4 pm on a school day is like Russian
roulette.

Big city freeways, when not at a standstill, are congested, high speed,
tailgating, free-for-alls. I am sure my flying in my plane is safer than
my
driving on my city freeways. I have to drive about 20 miles on those
freeways to get to my airport, and always breathe a sigh of relief that
the
dangerous part is over when I pull onto the airport ramp. Statistics are
relevant to me only if the sample is of people very close to people like
me
taking risks like mine. It is quite possible that for many of us, our
driving is more dangerous than our flying.

You will not find any supporting evidence for your assumptions. Any way you
want to look at it GA flying is more likely to result in your death than
driving many times over. What you would find is that two lane country roads
are among the most dangerous. Two way undivided traffic allows for very
little error and even single car accidents are spectacular. Divided
multilane traffic is among the safest.

The Nall report is available on the AOPA WEB site. It makes for interesting
reading.

I've read the Nall report.

You're missing my point. My point is, the way *I* fly, in *my* plane, is
safer than *my* drive to *my* airport, which is my main concern and the only
thing I can directly influence.

Isn't it possible I could be right? Do you agree that some kinds of GA
flying are safer than some kinds of automobile driving?



"Dave Stadt" wrote in message
om...

"Dan Thompson" wrote in message
. com...
I think you also have to focus on the safety risks of different kinds of
"driving." A Sunday morning drive on a deserted country lane is quite
safe.
Anywhere close to a high school at 4 pm on a school day is like Russian
roulette.

Big city freeways, when not at a standstill, are congested, high speed,
tailgating, free-for-alls. I am sure my flying in my plane is safer than
my
driving on my city freeways. I have to drive about 20 miles on those
freeways to get to my airport, and always breathe a sigh of relief that
the
dangerous part is over when I pull onto the airport ramp. Statistics are
relevant to me only if the sample is of people very close to people like
me
taking risks like mine. It is quite possible that for many of us, our
driving is more dangerous than our flying.

You will not find any supporting evidence for your assumptions. Any way
you
want to look at it GA flying is more likely to result in your death than
driving many times over. What you would find is that two lane country
roads
are among the most dangerous. Two way undivided traffic allows for very
little error and even single car accidents are spectacular. Divided
multilane traffic is among the safest.

The Nall report is available on the AOPA WEB site. It makes for
interesting
reading.