Radio Procedure - Runway ID

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message


I've had at least 6 different instructors and none have ever suggested a
leading zero on a runway designation. I do believe that leading zeroes
are expected, however, on headings.

Headings are always three digits. Runways never are.

"BTIZ" wrote in message
news:dCY3f.5892$MN6.5076@fed1read04...
and if no one replies... do you assume that no one is there??

NOT

BT

That's why it is such a useless waste of time used by amateur radio jockeys
that want to hear themselves talk.


"Mike W." wrote in message
...
Who knows, somebody might reply. Usually not.

"Newps" wrote in message
. ..

It doesn't. It's like saying "any traffic in the area please advise."
Serves no purpose but doesn't hurt anything.

"Matt Barrow" wrote in message
...

"George Patterson" wrote in message
news:kzZ3f.337$Gt2.140@trndny01...
Gary Drescher wrote:

Factoids that propagate by word of mouth through successive generations
of
students, with no one fact-checking along the way, are not reliable.

Yes, and you also have things still circulating that were once true but
have not been true since radial engines were the norm.

And many things are relevant from radials all the way through horizontally
opposed since internal combustion engines are much the same internally.
The
combustion event is virtually the same whether a radial, HO, or a lawn
mower.

So do you pull through one blade for each cylinder of your flat four before
starting?

On 2005-10-15, Dave Stadt wrote:

"BTIZ" wrote in message
news:dCY3f.5892$MN6.5076@fed1read04...
and if no one replies... do you assume that no one is there??

NOT

That's why it is such a useless waste of time used by amateur radio jockeys
that want to hear themselves talk.

Sure, just like reporting your position in the pattern is useless.
Everyone is supposed to "see and avoid" right? Why bother?

"Doug Carter" wrote in message
ire.net...
On 2005-10-15, Dave Stadt wrote:

"BTIZ" wrote in message
news:dCY3f.5892$MN6.5076@fed1read04...
and if no one replies... do you assume that no one is there??

NOT

That's why it is such a useless waste of time used by amateur radio
jockeys
that want to hear themselves talk.

Sure, just like reporting your position in the pattern is useless.
Everyone is supposed to "see and avoid" right? Why bother?

It isn't the same at all. The "where are you" yahoos are simply to lazy to
look and listen and for the most part simply clutter up already busy
frequencies. I can't say I have ever heard any one respond to their cries
for help. It's the same as the guy that calls 15 miles out into a busy
airport asking for the active when there have been 10 position reports in
the last few minutes all for the same runway.

"Dave Stadt" wrote in message
...

"Matt Barrow" wrote in message
...

"George Patterson" wrote in message
news:kzZ3f.337$Gt2.140@trndny01...
Gary Drescher wrote:

Factoids that propagate by word of mouth through successive generations
of
students, with no one fact-checking along the way, are not reliable.

Yes, and you also have things still circulating that were once true but
have not been true since radial engines were the norm.

And many things are relevant from radials all the way through
horizontally
opposed since internal combustion engines are much the same internally.
The
combustion event is virtually the same whether a radial, HO, or a lawn
mower.

So do you pull through one blade for each cylinder of your flat four
before
starting?

I pull through the blades on my lawn mower.

So, are you saying the combustion event is different in a radial from a HO
plant?

Here's a quiz; What are the fundamental aspects of the gasoline fired
internal combustion engine?

"..many things are relevant from radials all the way through horizontally
opposed "

Read again the part that says "many things". There's more alike than there
is different.

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Steven P. McNicoll wrote:

"Gary Drescher" wrote in message
...

It adds some redundancy. If there's both a 3 and a 30, and the tower says
"cleared to land runway three zero" but gets blocked right after saying
"three", a US pilot might head for the wrong runway. Under the ICAO rules,
however, the pilot would know that "runway three" is not a correct
designation.


Now you're introducing non-standard phraseology. In the US, the runway
designator precedes the landing clearance. It's "runway three zero cleared
to land", not "cleared to land runway three zero". If the tower says
"runway three zero cleared to land" but gets blocked right after saying
"three", a US pilot hasn't been issue a clearance to land on any runway.

Problem is, that some tower controllers do use 'cleared to land
runway xx'. Listen to the JFK or BOS feeds, and you'll hear exactly
that on a daily basis. Some call it 'non-standard phraseology', others
call it 'technique'.

What would you do? send them back for retraining? They are
giving a valid landing clearance (runway assigned, and 'cleared to
land').

There is this as well.. while people can argue that it is
taking up time on the frequency (valid argument), adding the preceding
zero to single digit runways does add clarity to which runway they are
shooting for. As a pilot, I would live with that extra fraction of a
second to hear that another pilot is calling that they are landing on
02 instead of being confused hearing a garbled transmission, and didn't
know if they were going for runway 2 or 20.

BL.

- --
Brad Littlejohn | Email:
Unix Systems Administrator, |
Web + NewsMaster, BOFH.. Smeghead! | http://www.sbcglobal.net/~tyketto
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Gary Drescher wrote:
"Casey Wilson" N2310D @ gmail.com wrote in message
news:83T3f.22$oy3.18@trnddc04...
Not particularly germane to this discussion, but KIYK is a non-tower
airport. I was up doing bumps and rounds, AKA touch-n-goes yesterday, and
was dutifully calling out my various positions as any good airman in the
pattern should do.

Now, I was calling the runway as 02, like in "....33Xray, turning left
base, runway Zero-Two, Inyokern." Over the radio comes a voice to admonish
me that, "...there is no zero in front of the two." Never wanting to
rankle a fellow pilot, I dropped the zero -- well, most of the time,
anyway. Thirty-year-old habits are hard to break.

Does it matter? Is there a protocol for this?

The AIM provides radio communication protocols. Unfortunately, section 4-2
(Radio Communications Phraseology and Techniques) is silent on this point.
However, section 4-3 (Airport Operations) gives the example "cleared to land
runway six right", so omitting the zero appears to be the standard
(4-3-11c2).


Correct me if I'm wrong, but last I was taught, the AIM was
presented as a guideline for pilots to follow, not something that they
must absolutely swear by, like ATC does with the .65. So the pilots
could say 'zero six right' or 'six right', and both would be
acceptable.

BL.
- --
Brad Littlejohn | Email:
Unix Systems Administrator, |
Web + NewsMaster, BOFH.. Smeghead! | http://www.sbcglobal.net/~tyketto
PGP: 1024D/E319F0BF 6980 AAD6 7329 E9E6 D569 F620 C819 199A E319 F0BF

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Jose wrote:
Well, in all fairness, what =should= we trust instructors for?

Signatures.

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
ink.net...
Now you're introducing non-standard phraseology. In the US, the runway
designator precedes the landing clearance. It's "runway three zero
cleared to land", not "cleared to land runway three zero". If the tower
says "runway three zero cleared to land" but gets blocked right after
saying "three", a US pilot hasn't been issue a clearance to land on any
runway.

Interesting. Is the AIM mistaken in the following example (4-3-11c2), or is
the order different for LAHSO? "ATC: '(Aircraft ID) cleared to land runway
six right, hold short of taxiway bravo for crossing traffic (type
aircraft).'"

--Gary