Important message for SSA members

I guess we need to agree on what "better" means.
Size vs. influence?
We would have a 14K ceiling (Class A) for the past two decades without the
AOPA.

- Béla


------Original Message-----
-From: Glider Pilot Network ]
-Sent: Thursday, September 07, 2006 1:06 PM
-To: Bela Szalai
-Subject: [r.a.s] Important message for SSA members
-
-------------------------------------------------------------
-Newsgroup: rec.aviation.soaring
-Subject: Important message for SSA members
-Author:
-Date/Time: 20:00 07 September 2006
-------------------------------------------------------------
-If SSA were to merge with a larger organization, EAA would be
-better suited than AOPA. The EAA already has a number of
-Divisions & Affiliates under its umbrella, including:
-
-International Aerobatic Club
-http://www.iac.org/
-
-Vintage Aircraft Association
-http://www.vintageaircraft.org/
-
-War Birds of America
-http://www.warbirds-eaa.org/
-
-National Association of Flight Instructors http://www.nafinet.org/
-
-EAA Ultralights
-http://www.eaa.org/ultralights/index.html
-
-Sport Pilot and Light Sport Aircraft Assoc.
-http://www.sportpilot.org/
-
-Young Eagles
-http://www.youngeagles.org/
-
-and there are more....... Each of these groups has its own
-magazine and identity.
-
-EAA promotes and fully supports each and every one of these
-organizations. Makes sense that a soaring division of EAA
-would fit nicely with these other groups.
-
-In my opinion, SSA is just too small to efficiently manage
-itself logistically and financially.
-
-Jon B.
-GA
-
-
-
-Stan - VA wrote:
- I think it is pretty clear that if the SSA survives this latest bout
-of
- mismanagment that our dues will mainly go to debt payment,
-and not to
- services for members.
-
- Several of us at our club have considered the pros and cons of the
- AOPA idea. It definitely is worth discussing.
-
- The AOPA has some real lobbying power. If the SSA ever had any, it
- won't now. The amount of $ SSA had, has, or will have to spend on
- lobbying efforts probably won't even open the door for us
-with anyone
- in Washington. AOPA's clout is another matter.
-
- I don't know that the AOPA would be interested, but 16,000 pilots
- would be a healthy addition to their membership, if that is what the
- SSA membership is. Of course, some SSA are already AOPA members.
-
- A couple of pages monthly in the AOPA magizine would probably do
- soaring a world of good. Most of the potential pilots for our sport
- are already power pilots.
-
- AIG, the insurer who underwrites the policies that come from
- Costello's, already has a relationship with the AOPA. Probably
- Costello's has a relationship with the AOPA too. Hopefully, we
- maintain our insurance in its present form.
-
- Let's face the reality of the situation. We may soon have
-no national
- soaring umbrella organization. We will need to deal with
-that in some
- fashion. Better to think about the alternatives now.
-
- Stan Scott - VA
-
- Tony Verhulst wrote:
- Nyal Williams wrote:
- We have always wanted to be more like the BGA. Do you believe
- that, comprising 1% of the pilot population, we would
-receive any
- notice inside AOPA? Maybe one page near the back of the
-magazine
- -- occasionally.
-
- Would we receive any notice inside AOPA? No! Not even
-inside EAA nor
- even NAFI. Case in point, I used to be a NAFI (National Association
-of
- Flight Instructors) member. In one of their monthly (mailed)
- newsletters (2002), they warned us that the PTS (practical Test
- Standard)was changing and to make sure that we trained our
-students
- to the new standards. When I researched the matter I
-discovered that
- ONLY the
- *airplane* PTS was changing - not glider, not helicopter, ... you
- get the picture. I wrote a nice letter to the organization
-president
- and editor explaining the situation and requested a public
-clarification.
-I
- got nowhere - not even a clarification in their online newsletter
- which would have cost them nothing to distribute. After several
- polite email exchanges, I realized that unless you were an
-airplane
- instructor you were nothing and that there was no point in
-me being
- a member. I resigned in protest.
-
- Expect similar treatment if we become part of AOPA.
-
- Tony V. CFIG
- http://home.comcast.net/~verhulst/SOARING
-
-
-------------------------------------------------------------
-

Sorry Bill. Reading about contest flying is about
as exciting as watching paint dry.

I will admit that the OLC has opened up some avenues
for leaning by example, though.



At 23:06 07 September 2006, Bill Daniels wrote:

'5-BG' wrote in message
...
Joe in Georgia wrote 'I doubt pursuits like
Badge / Record Claims, Sporting code changes, sailplane
handicaps,
conventions, or contest management would be of any
interest to them,
and that is our bread and butter.'

That MAY BE BREAD AND BUTTER to the contest pilot
set, but it is of
absolutly no interest to a significant number of recreational
pilots who
soar just to be flying and who have no interest whatsoever
in
contests,badges etc. A great deal of SSA resources
are spent each month on a
glossy magazine which is devoted in large part ( altho
I do acknowledge the
recent attempts to broaden its scope) to contests and
to the 'elite ' of the
sport. I wonder just how many of the 16,000 members
actually care about the
contest circuit.

It is my opinion that the focus on contests as a
measure of whether or not
someone is having fun has not only lef to a split in
the ranks of the SSA,
but has also had a very bad impact on the business
of building gliders
suitable for the general flying population. I saw this
same thing 30 years
ago in ocean sailboat racing. The concept of daysailing,
cruising and just
having a good time was replaced by an emphasis on competition.
From the
individual yatch club level to the world cup. Boats
got much faster AND way
more expensive. They became more fragile and were outdated
after a couple of
seasons.
I believe that the glorification of competition is
OK and that it satisfies
the ego needs of a significant portion of the pilots
who own sailplanes.
HOWEVER to say that it is the bread and butter of the
SSA is just plain
wrong.

we wonder why kids are not coming into a sport that
takes a $100,000 hot
rod to be competitive. The attitude that if you don't
have the latest
glass ship that dominated the nationals last month
you are somhow a lesser
pilot is fostered by this bread and butter attitude.
What ever happened to
just jumping in a sailplane and losing oneself in the
sky for several hours
of solitude? Whatever happened to the concept of just
trying to improve or
develop skills just for personal satisfaction? These
concepts are the bread
and butter of soaring.
Not only have the finances of SSA been mismanaged,
but i believe that the
society has become irrevelant to a significant portion
of its recreational
for fun pilots.
5bg


This is bulls**t - give it a rest. I've heard it
since I started flying
gliders in 1960. It seems to come from people who don't
care to make an
effort to be good enough pilots to compete and whose
egos can't stand
hearing about those who can and do. All good pilots
want to get better and
reading about the accomplishments or others is an excellent
incentive.

It's like saying that kids who play ball don't care
about the World Cup.
Or the readers of Road & Track don't care about auto
racing's Grand Prix
Circuits. Most people who fly gliders want to read
about competition
whether it be just badges or the new Grand Prix Racing
curcuit. This is one
of the things the SSA has always done right.

Bill Daniels

Oops. ...learning by example...

Leaning by example is usually caused by too many beers
after flying, or when checking a new EGT with an instructor...

At 00:42 08 September 2006, Bob C wrote:
Sorry Bill. Reading about contest flying is about
as exciting as watching paint dry.

I will admit that the OLC has opened up some avenues
for leaning by example, though.



At 23:06 07 September 2006, Bill Daniels wrote:

'5-BG' wrote in message
...
Joe in Georgia wrote 'I doubt pursuits like
Badge / Record Claims, Sporting code changes, sailplane
handicaps,
conventions, or contest management would be of any
interest to them,
and that is our bread and butter.'

That MAY BE BREAD AND BUTTER to the contest pilot
set, but it is of
absolutly no interest to a significant number of recreational
pilots who
soar just to be flying and who have no interest whatsoever
in
contests,badges etc. A great deal of SSA resources
are spent each month on a
glossy magazine which is devoted in large part ( altho
I do acknowledge the
recent attempts to broaden its scope) to contests and
to the 'elite ' of the
sport. I wonder just how many of the 16,000 members
actually care about the
contest circuit.

It is my opinion that the focus on contests as a
measure of whether or not
someone is having fun has not only lef to a split in
the ranks of the SSA,
but has also had a very bad impact on the business
of building gliders
suitable for the general flying population. I saw this
same thing 30 years
ago in ocean sailboat racing. The concept of daysailing,
cruising and just
having a good time was replaced by an emphasis on competition.
From the
individual yatch club level to the world cup. Boats
got much faster AND way
more expensive. They became more fragile and were outdated
after a couple of
seasons.
I believe that the glorification of competition is
OK and that it satisfies
the ego needs of a significant portion of the pilots
who own sailplanes.
HOWEVER to say that it is the bread and butter of the
SSA is just plain
wrong.

we wonder why kids are not coming into a sport that
takes a $100,000 hot
rod to be competitive. The attitude that if you don't
have the latest
glass ship that dominated the nationals last month
you are somhow a lesser
pilot is fostered by this bread and butter attitude.
What ever happened to
just jumping in a sailplane and losing oneself in the
sky for several hours
of solitude? Whatever happened to the concept of just
trying to improve or
develop skills just for personal satisfaction? These
concepts are the bread
and butter of soaring.
Not only have the finances of SSA been mismanaged,
but i believe that the
society has become irrevelant to a significant portion
of its recreational
for fun pilots.
5bg


This is bulls**t - give it a rest. I've heard it
since I started flying
gliders in 1960. It seems to come from people who don't
care to make an
effort to be good enough pilots to compete and whose
egos can't stand
hearing about those who can and do. All good pilots
want to get better and
reading about the accomplishments or others is an excellent
incentive.

It's like saying that kids who play ball don't care
about the World Cup.
Or the readers of Road & Track don't care about auto
racing's Grand Prix
Circuits. Most people who fly gliders want to read
about competition
whether it be just badges or the new Grand Prix Racing
curcuit. This is one
of the things the SSA has always done right.

Bill Daniels

OK, Guys, let's not forget that Soaring contains articles
submitted, presumably, by members. Its slant, if it
has one, is likely caused by the kinds of submissions
it gets. If your area of interest is shortchanged,
write something up and send it in.


At 01:36 08 September 2006, wrote:
No, you are the one who don't get it. How does one
pilot flying in a
contest, or doing a badge or whatever, prevent another
pilot from
getting his kicks twirlybirding around the sky? The
ATTITUDE divide
that supposedly interferes with your enjoyment of the
sport exists in
YOUR head, not mine or anyone elses. YOU are the one
who looks at a
magazine article about Striedeck or Ittner or whoever
and imagines that
they and all their friends are looking down upon you.


5-BG wrote:
fadoodle

you wrote 'You've hit the nail on the head here.
I think this is the true source
of all the whining you hear about the two or three
pages of Soaring
typically devoted to contest related news

YOU DON'T GET IT EITHER!!!.. its not about the '2
pages' , which are actually quite a bit more than 2
pages.. but about the ATTITUDE that divides the membership.
To the extent that everything is about performance
and winning, the sport is leaving behind many, old
and WOULD BE pilots. I saw Chuck Yeager on TV the other
night flying a glider... with a safety pilot no less..
are you seriously suggesting that his ego is in danger
because he was just having fun in the air.. with CHOKE..
a safety pilot along for the ride.. No I would have
given a bunch to be that other pilot and to simply
have had the privlege of flying just for fun with
gen Yeager.
There are many 'for fun' pilots who have very expansive
'ego walls' filled with decorations and rememberances
of past exploits that make a soaring badge or second
place finish at the nationals seem almost laughable.
These pilots have left behind, long ago, the need
for constant ego stroking.
Perhaps the current situation will provide an
excuse for the ssa to reevaluate its core values and
thrust of its operations.

wrote in message
glegroups.com...

Bill Daniels wrote:

'It seems to come from people who don't care to
make an
effort to be good enough pilots to compete and
whose egos can't stand
hearing about those who can and do. '

You've hit the nail on the head here. I think this
is the true source
of all the whining you hear about the two or three
pages of Soaring
typically devoted to contest related news.

------=_NextPart_000_0088_01C6D28A.556AF2F0
Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Google-AttachSize: 2909








fadoodle

you wrote 'You've hit
the nail on the head here. I think this is the true
sourceof all the
whining you hear about the two or three pages of Soaringtypically
devoted to
contest related news

YOU DON'T GET IT EITHER!!!.. its not about the '2
pages' ,
which are actually quite a bit more than 2 pages..
but about the ATTITUDE that
divides the membership. To the extent that everything
is about performance and
winning, the sport is leaving behind many, old and
WOULD BE pilots. I saw Chuck
Yeager on TV the other night flying a glider... with
a safety pilot no less..
are you seriously suggesting that his ego is in danger
because he was just
having fun in the air.. with CHOKE.. a safety pilot
along for the ride.. No I
would have given a bunch to be that other pilot and
to simply have had the
privlege of flying just for fun with gen Yeager.

There are many 'for fun' pilots who have very
expansive 'ego walls' filled with decorations and
rememberances of past exploits
that make a soaring badge or second place finish
at the
nationals seem almost laughable. These pilots have
left behind, long
ago, the need for constant ego stroking.
Perhaps the current situation will
provide an excuse for the ssa to reevaluate its core
values and thrust of its
operations.

style='PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT:
5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT:
0px'
wrote
in message
ooglegroups.com'news:1157673698.112904.130680@ m73g2000cwd.googlegr
oups.com...Bill
Daniels wrote: 'It seems to come from people who
don't care to
make an effort to be good enough pilots to compete
and whose egos
can't stand hearing about those who can and do.
'You've hit
the nail on the head here. I think this is the
true sourceof all the
whining you hear about the two or three pages of
Soaringtypically devoted
to contest related news.

------=_NextPart_000_0088_01C6D28A.556AF2F0--

Let's not forget that Soaring contains only articles
submitted by members. If you feel your interests are
not represented why not write something. Those interested
in contest flying are at least interested enough to
write about them. (I am not a contest pilot; too expensive.)


At 01:36 08 September 2006, wrote:
No, you are the one who don't get it. How does one
pilot flying in a
contest, or doing a badge or whatever, prevent another
pilot from
getting his kicks twirlybirding around the sky? The
ATTITUDE divide
that supposedly interferes with your enjoyment of the
sport exists in
YOUR head, not mine or anyone elses. YOU are the one
who looks at a
magazine article about Striedeck or Ittner or whoever
and imagines that
they and all their friends are looking down upon you.


5-BG wrote:
fadoodle

you wrote 'You've hit the nail on the head here.
I think this is the true source
of all the whining you hear about the two or three
pages of Soaring
typically devoted to contest related news

YOU DON'T GET IT EITHER!!!.. its not about the '2
pages' , which are actually quite a bit more than 2
pages.. but about the ATTITUDE that divides the membership.
To the extent that everything is about performance
and winning, the sport is leaving behind many, old
and WOULD BE pilots. I saw Chuck Yeager on TV the other
night flying a glider... with a safety pilot no less..
are you seriously suggesting that his ego is in danger
because he was just having fun in the air.. with CHOKE..
a safety pilot along for the ride.. No I would have
given a bunch to be that other pilot and to simply
have had the privlege of flying just for fun with
gen Yeager.
There are many 'for fun' pilots who have very expansive
'ego walls' filled with decorations and rememberances
of past exploits that make a soaring badge or second
place finish at the nationals seem almost laughable.
These pilots have left behind, long ago, the need
for constant ego stroking.
Perhaps the current situation will provide an
excuse for the ssa to reevaluate its core values and
thrust of its operations.

wrote in message
glegroups.com...

Bill Daniels wrote:

'It seems to come from people who don't care to
make an
effort to be good enough pilots to compete and
whose egos can't stand
hearing about those who can and do. '

You've hit the nail on the head here. I think this
is the true source
of all the whining you hear about the two or three
pages of Soaring
typically devoted to contest related news.

------=_NextPart_000_0088_01C6D28A.556AF2F0
Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Google-AttachSize: 2909








fadoodle

you wrote 'You've hit
the nail on the head here. I think this is the true
sourceof all the
whining you hear about the two or three pages of Soaringtypically
devoted to
contest related news

YOU DON'T GET IT EITHER!!!.. its not about the '2
pages' ,
which are actually quite a bit more than 2 pages..
but about the ATTITUDE that
divides the membership. To the extent that everything
is about performance and
winning, the sport is leaving behind many, old and
WOULD BE pilots. I saw Chuck
Yeager on TV the other night flying a glider... with
a safety pilot no less..
are you seriously suggesting that his ego is in danger
because he was just
having fun in the air.. with CHOKE.. a safety pilot
along for the ride.. No I
would have given a bunch to be that other pilot and
to simply have had the
privlege of flying just for fun with gen Yeager.

There are many 'for fun' pilots who have very
expansive 'ego walls' filled with decorations and
rememberances of past exploits
that make a soaring badge or second place finish
at the
nationals seem almost laughable. These pilots have
left behind, long
ago, the need for constant ego stroking.
Perhaps the current situation will
provide an excuse for the ssa to reevaluate its core
values and thrust of its
operations.

style='PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT:
5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT:
0px'
wrote
in message
ooglegroups.com'news:1157673698.112904.130680@ m73g2000cwd.googlegr
oups.com...Bill
Daniels wrote: 'It seems to come from people who
don't care to
make an effort to be good enough pilots to compete
and whose egos
can't stand hearing about those who can and do.
'You've hit
the nail on the head here. I think this is the
true sourceof all the
whining you hear about the two or three pages of
Soaringtypically devoted
to contest related news.

------=_NextPart_000_0088_01C6D28A.556AF2F0--