Winds A Factor In Lidle Crash

Ron Lee wrote:
Good pilot? Safe pilot? Nahh, just alive by the grace of ...

No, you used proper judgement consistent with your abilities.

Ron Lee
Thanks Ron.

Sounds like you've done enough flying over enough years to be a safe
pilot, and one I'd be pleased to fly with. However, given the level of
arrogance and cocksure'edness displayed in your comments here, I'm not
sure that I would be so pleased to fly with you when you were younger
and/or less experienced.

Living pilots can always point to their existence as evidence of their
superior skills and judgement. And worse, they can always point to
other pilots' demise as evidence of their lacking the same.

Fate is the Hunter, and there but for the grace of ...

Bill Watson - not believing in fate or god, yet humble in the face of
both nonetheless

One of the first things I do when talking flight safety to pilots is to tell
them emphatically that they should NEVER start thinking about themselves as
being "safe" pilots. This can lead to a complacency that can become a vary
dangerous habit pattern for a pilot. Its far too easy for a pilot who thinks
of himself/herself as "safe" to relax and lose that keen desire for the
constant improvement demanded by flight operations.
This basic psychology is recognized both in the airline and military flight
safety communities.
The key to flight safety demands that a pilot develop a mental outlook about
the flight environment that requires a constant monitoring of performance.
This monitoring should be ingrained toward improvement rather than
maintaining the status quo. In other words, a pilot who thinks of
himself/herself as being "safe", is generally more susceptible to accepting
their level of performance rather than actively seeking to improve it.
These are subtle factors indeed, as they relate to the flight safety
picture, and basically amount to a proper attitude toward self evaluation,
but absolutely necessary in the development of a sound flight safety
environment for a pilot.
You can sum all this up simply by saying that a really safe pilot never
thinks of himself/herself as being safe, but rather constantly thinking in
the context of how to become "safer".
Dudley Henriques


"Bill Watson" wrote in message
...
Ron Lee wrote:
Good pilot? Safe pilot? Nahh, just alive by the grace of ...

No, you used proper judgement consistent with your abilities.

Ron Lee
Thanks Ron.

Sounds like you've done enough flying over enough years to be a safe
pilot, and one I'd be pleased to fly with. However, given the level of
arrogance and cocksure'edness displayed in your comments here, I'm not
sure that I would be so pleased to fly with you when you were younger
and/or less experienced.

Living pilots can always point to their existence as evidence of their
superior skills and judgement. And worse, they can always point to other
pilots' demise as evidence of their lacking the same.

Fate is the Hunter, and there but for the grace of ...

Bill Watson - not believing in fate or god, yet humble in the face of both
nonetheless

Larry Dighera wrote:

On 8 Nov 2006 09:18:02 -0600, T o d d P a t t i s t
wrote in
:

They'd have been able to make the turn
even more easily if they'd moved to the other side and
turned into the wind.

Too true. Which leads to the conclusion that they weren't aware of
the crosswind component, hadn't been briefed on the wind, or ...

Or the traffic pattern definition does not allow for wind direction. Even a
high time pilot would be prone to "fly the pattern" rather than deviate
from a published route.

It seems this route was known to be a bit of a "challenge". It's probably
too late, but in the future I wonder if it wouldn't make sense to allow the
direction of turns along the route to be based on wind direction.

--
Frank....H

Bill Watson wrote:

Ron Lee wrote:
Good pilot? Safe pilot? Nahh, just alive by the grace of ...

No, you used proper judgement consistent with your abilities.

Ron Lee
Thanks Ron.

Sounds like you've done enough flying over enough years to be a safe
pilot, and one I'd be pleased to fly with. However, given the level of
arrogance and cocksure'edness displayed in your comments here, I'm not
sure that I would be so pleased to fly with you when you were younger
and/or less experienced.

Living pilots can always point to their existence as evidence of their
superior skills and judgement. And worse, they can always point to
other pilots' demise as evidence of their lacking the same.

Fate is the Hunter, and there but for the grace of ...

Bill Watson - not believing in fate or god, yet humble in the face of
both nonetheless

Bill, you are using an incorrect meaning of "arrogant." Arrogant is
saying I am the best pilot around. I have never said that and
probably never will. But despite the other response what I lack in
experience/training I make up for in good judgement...hence I am safe.

BTW, for those of you who defend Lidle, his actions jeopardized people
in that building and on the ground.

My fate in is my hands, not "by the grace of..."

Ron Lee

Ron Lee wrote:
Pilots can always point to their existence as evidence of their
superior skills and judgement. And worse, they can always point to
other pilots' demise as evidence of their lacking the same.

Fate is the Hunter, and there but for the grace of ...

Bill Watson - not believing in fate or god, yet humble in the face of
both nonetheless

Bill, you are using an incorrect meaning of "arrogant." Arrogant is
saying I am the best pilot around. I have never said that and
probably never will.

Ron, I don't know why you would choose to duke it out over word
definitions but here goes (my ***)

Arrogance (Ar"ro*gance) (#), n.
[F., fr. L. arrogantia, fr. arrogans. See Arrogant.]
The act or habit of arrogating, or making undue claims in an overbearing
manner; that species of pride which consists in exorbitant claims of
rank, dignity, estimation, or power, or which exalts the worth or
importance of the person to an undue degree; **proud contempt of
others** lordliness; haughtiness; self-assumption; presumption.

But despite the other response what I lack in
experience/training I make up for in good judgement...hence I am safe.
You know, I'm just sparring with you here. Dudley is giving you the
real deal. Read with me what he is saying and learn.

BTW, for those of you who defend Lidle, his actions jeopardized people
in that building and on the ground.
No defense here. Just trying hold back on the proud contempt.

My fate in is my hands, not "by the grace of..."
You need to get out more. Try reading "Fate is the Hunter" by Gann.
Hopefully you and I both will be lucky enough that our fate remains in
our skilled hands, at least until it doesn't anymore.

Mauledriver

Bill Watson wrote:

Ron Lee wrote:
Pilots can always point to their existence as evidence of their
superior skills and judgement. And worse, they can always point to
other pilots' demise as evidence of their lacking the same.

Fate is the Hunter, and there but for the grace of ...

Bill Watson - not believing in fate or god, yet humble in the face of
both nonetheless

Bill, you are using an incorrect meaning of "arrogant." Arrogant is
saying I am the best pilot around. I have never said that and
probably never will.

Ron, I don't know why you would choose to duke it out over word
definitions but here goes (my ***)

Arrogance (Ar"ro*gance) (#), n.
[F., fr. L. arrogantia, fr. arrogans. See Arrogant.]
The act or habit of arrogating, or making undue claims in an overbearing
manner; that species of pride which consists in exorbitant claims of
rank, dignity, estimation, or power, or which exalts the worth or
importance of the person to an undue degree; **proud contempt of
others** lordliness; haughtiness; self-assumption; presumption.

But despite the other response what I lack in
experience/training I make up for in good judgement...hence I am safe.
You know, I'm just sparring with you here. Dudley is giving you the
real deal. Read with me what he is saying and learn.

His stuff was just high on the fluff scale to digest. I am better
able to determine if I am safe or not than anyone on this forum.


BTW, for those of you who defend Lidle, his actions jeopardized people
in that building and on the ground.
No defense here. Just trying hold back on the proud contempt.

Just plain contempt. You assume the "proud" part. I would better
call it "disgust."

My fate in is my hands, not "by the grace of..."
You need to get out more. Try reading "Fate is the Hunter" by Gann.
Hopefully you and I both will be lucky enough that our fate remains in
our skilled hands, at least until it doesn't anymore.

I prefer Calvin & Hobbes.

Ron Lee

Mauledriver

"Ron Lee" wrote in message
...


His stuff was just high on the fluff scale to digest. I am better
able to determine if I am safe or not than anyone on this forum.

Actually, (pardon my high side fluff here :-) its virtually impossible for
any pilot to be the definitive judge on how "safe" they are, as this
requires not only a highly specific, but a highly objective observation that
requires an extremely professional approach to the subject.
This is why doctors go to other doctors for treatment and why a good lawyer
will NEVER defend himself in court. The element of objectivity MUST be
present in any accurate analysis.
And as I have said, considering yourself as being the best judge of your own
competence is the first thing any good professional dealing directly with
flight safety and the individual pilot will eliminate from the equation.
Please know that I intend no putdown here of your abilities as a pilot. If
its any consulation, I will tell you up front that I'm a fairly good stick
myself (or used to be anyway :-) and all through my career as a professional
pilot, when I wasn't busy helping to evaluate other pilots proficiency
level, I actively sought out competent help in determining my own
proficiency level at any given time.
Trust me. If you want the professional approach to this issue; this is the
way it is.
Dudley Henriques

Ron Lee wrote:

My fate in is my hands, not "by the grace of..."

No kidding? You built every part of your airplane yourself? You know
that the crank was properly heat treated and will never fail? You do
your own annuals so that you know nothing was missed?

Amazing that you aren't at all dependent on others or the vagaries of
things mechanical. I'm impressed.


Matt

Ron Lee wrote:

His stuff was just high on the fluff scale to digest. I am better
able to determine if I am safe or not than anyone on this forum.

You've got this arrogance thing down to a science.


I prefer Calvin & Hobbes.

Now that is a surprise!


Matt

On Thu, 09 Nov 2006 11:38:19 -0600, "Frank....H" wrote in
:

Or the traffic pattern definition does not allow for wind direction. Even a
high time pilot would be prone to "fly the pattern" rather than deviate
from a published route.

Being based on the west coast, I'm not familiar with the published
procedure to which you refer. I searched the AOPA web site, and did a
Google search, but was unable to locate it. Are you able to provide a
URL to the graphic depiction or written description of the route?