American pilots charged in Amazon jetliner crash

"Dan" wrote in message
ups.com...
I'm saying that even though they are probably innocent, the Brazillian
courts are likely looking for a scapegoat. They stand a strong chance
of being found guilty even if they are not.

Dan

and that never happens in the US either?

Dan wrote:
So let's see... Find a new job and don't own a gun, or rot in a
Brazillian prison for years... Boy, that's a tough choice.


We don't know their personal situations so we can't make that decision
for them. Maybe they have small penises and *must* own guns.

"Jim Macklin" wrote in message
...
Remember they agreed to return.


I would have as well. And it would take a US federal judge and the Sec State
to make me go back. I think that any US court would accept that that
agreement was given under duress.

"Chris" wrote in message
...

"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
ups.com...

Greg Farris wrote:
I don't know how things work in Brazil.
It could be similar to Europe, where a full investigation of the
accident
cannot be completed without naming purported "perpetrators" and
subjecting them
to a criminal investigation. The fact that the two pilots are named as
defendants does not preclude the naming of the air traffic controlers as
well.

One possible weakness of such a method is that it puts a very strong
emphasis
on the importance of human imperfections, while leaving little place for
the
argument that a system design weakness may be equally to blame, if not
more so.

I agree the US pilots would be crazy to EVER go back there - This
would even
seem to be implicit in the fact that they were allowed to leave!!

Its not unheard of for U.S. Marshalls to arrest a U.S. citizen in the
U.S. to stand for a warrent in a foreign country....
http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/09/14/dog.bounty/index.html
U.S. treaties allow for foreign countries to issue arrest warrents for
U.S. citizens in the U.S..

And the same treaties allow the US to issue warrants in foreign countries
for the arrest of foreign nationals too. So what is the issue. You don't
expect a US citizen to receive a fair trial in a foreign country? It could
be argued that a foreigner would not get a fair trial in the US. Hell many
US citizens don't get a fair trial in the US.


And very often foreign countries choose not to extradite people to the US.
The extradition treaties are not short documents there are lots of "if",
"or" and "but" statements in them.

"Chris" wrote in message
...

"Dan" wrote in message
ups.com...
I'm saying that even though they are probably innocent, the Brazillian
courts are likely looking for a scapegoat. They stand a strong chance
of being found guilty even if they are not.

Dan

and that never happens in the US either?

Occasionally, not as a matter of course unless you're one of the media's
enemies.


In the US there's an efficient appeals process and open media to apply
transparency to the process.

But you knew that before you shoved your head up into your anal cavity.

The process for extradition of a US citizen to a foreign court does most
certainly go through a federal judge and the Sec State. If Brazil requests
extradition there will be a hearing before a US Federal Judge and even that
ruling is subject to appeal. The Sec of State can even overrule the ruling
if it is the favor of the foreign country.

If those things happen and they find that the US citizen is not going to be
extradited the US citizen is not then in violation of any US law and hence
the ATF and FBI couldn't care less.


"Jim Macklin" wrote in message
...
BATFE and the FBI decide, not the SecState, the warrant
still exists and they're still a fugitive. Same if you have
a traffic ticket in Florida and don't pay it. They will
issue a warrant and you become a fugitive from justice.
When you go to but a new shotgun, rifle or handgun, or renew
your concealed carry permit, the warrant will turn up.


"601XL Builder" wrDOTgiacona@coxDOTnet wrote in message
...
| Jim Macklin wrote:
| And a felon in another county is still considered a
felon in
| the USA, say good bye to your civil rights.
|
|
|
|
| Not if a US Federal judge and the Sec State decide not to
extradite them.

Kyle Boatright wrote:
"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...
Greg Farris wrote:

I think the US pilots were given a one-way exit visa, and are not
expected to return.

I also thought it funny that they held them this long with no charges and
then charged them and returned their passports. Is this the Brazilian way
to say "we had to charge you, but really don't want to try you so get
outta here?"

Matt

Brazil isn't on my mental list of Banana Republics, but this case smacks of
blaming a couple of gringo's for a problem with Brazillian ATC.

Got the following forwarded in e-mail this morning:

============
Brazil air traffic improves, but crisis lingers
Thu 7 Dec 2006 9:26 AM ET

By Todd Benson

SAO PAULO, Brazil, Dec 7 (Reuters) - Air traffic in Brazil slowly began
to return to normal on Thursday after two days of near chaos at
airports around the country that has prompted calls for the resignation
of government aviation officials.

Dozens of flights were still delayed at several airports, Brazil's
civil aviation agency said. But the situation was a far cry from
Tuesday and Wednesday, when an equipment failure in a control tower
forced authorities to take the unprecedented step of temporarily
shutting down three major airports.

"The situation should be back to normal by the end of the day," a
spokeswoman for the aviation agency said.

At least 1,000 flights were delayed over the two-day span and 322 more
were canceled, triggering protests by outraged travelers and prompting
Brazil's Congress to create two separate committees to investigate the
situation.

The crisis has also led to calls for the resignation of Defense
Minister Waldir Pires and Air Force Commander Luiz Carlos Bueno, whose
handling of the situation has been widely criticized as ineffective.
The military is in charge of civil aviation in Brazil.

On Wednesday, the president of Brazil's lower house of Congress called
on the government to adopt "drastic measures" to address the crisis.
Some lawmakers and aviation experts said it was time for the military
to hand over control of the aviation system to civilian authorities.

Air traffic in Brazil has been badly disrupted since a Boeing 737
operated by Brazilian airline Gol Linhas Aereas Inteligentes
GOLL4.SA. crashed in the Amazon rain forest on Sept. 29, killing all
154 people aboard.

The inquiry into the accident, which is still inconclusive, exposed
major fault lines in the country's air traffic control system.

In response, air traffic controllers have organized work slowdowns to
protest poor pay and long hours, disrupting air traffic several times
in the last two months.

Authorities are investigating if this week's breakdown was the result
of sabotage by disgruntled controllers, who have complained that they
are being made scapegoats for the September crash.

Some analysts say the crisis could have a ripple effect on the economy
in Brazil, a continent-sized country where flying is often the only
option for business travelers.

Airlines are already feeling the pinch. Shares in Brazil's top two
airlines, TAM Linhas Aereas TAMM4.SA and Gol, have each fallen more
than 15 percent in the last two months.

And on Thursday, Gol slashed its revenue forecast for this year for the
second time in a month, citing a drop in passenger traffic because of
the crisis. TAM declined to comment on a potential drop in revenue.
============

"Flatulence" wrote in message
ups.com...

Dan wrote:
So let's see... Find a new job and don't own a gun, or rot in a
Brazillian prison for years... Boy, that's a tough choice.


We don't know their personal situations so we can't make that decision
for them. Maybe they have small penises and *must* own guns.

On the other hand, they could have miniscule penises and troll newsgroups.

("Kyle Boatright" wrote)
We don't know their personal situations so we can't make that decision
for them. Maybe they have small penises and *must* own guns.

On the other hand, they could have miniscule penises and troll newsgroups.


Would inserting the preposition "In ..." make that statement more true?


Montblack

Kyle Boatright wrote:
"Flatulence" wrote in message
ups.com...

Dan wrote:
So let's see... Find a new job and don't own a gun, or rot in a
Brazillian prison for years... Boy, that's a tough choice.


We don't know their personal situations so we can't make that decision
for them. Maybe they have small penises and *must* own guns.

On the other hand, they could have miniscule penises and troll newsgroups.

More likely they'd buy a Humvee.