interesting moment yesterday on final

On Sun, 29 Apr 2007 11:13:13 GMT, "Steven P. McNicoll"
wrote in
. net:


"Mike 'Flyin'8'" wrote in message
.. .

No matter how you want to look at it, if there are already some planes
in the pattern a straight-in approach is disruptive.


No more than entering on a 45 degree turn to downwind is.


I'd say, that cuts directly to the core of the issue of straight-in
arrivals at uncontrolled fields.

Perhaps the misunderstanding about this issue is a result of most VFR
pilots not having been instructed to use a straight-in approach at
uncontrolled fields, because the of the necessity of observing the
wind direction indicator before joining the pattern, and VFR pilots
relative unfamiliarity with straight-ins due to always being
instructed to report downwind at Class Ds.

I would venture a guess, that most IFR rated pilots understand how the
landing pattern works.

In article et,
"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote:

"Erik" wrote in message
...

Exactly my point. I can understand some big jet or something that
can't fly the same pattern the little 150 flies, so I'll
accommodate them. If some other 150 comes in and wants to straight
in and and there's already people in the pattern, get in line, pal,
or wait until there's nobody to disrupt to practice long finals.


An aircraft on final has the right-of-way, big jet or 150.

Not if he is 5 mile out! I prefer the overhead approach, so I can
determine the least disruptive arrival. You approach at pattern
altitude, down the runway, check for traffic on downwind and break to
the downwind. That way, you are not charging into traffic turning base
to final, while you are watching for the airspeed to diminish to drop
the gear, wait for "gear safe" and set up landing. IMHO, the straight in
ranks among the "least preferred" of approaches.

On Sun, 29 Apr 2007 10:59:56 GMT, "Steven P. McNicoll"
wrote in
et:

An aircraft on final has the right-of-way, big jet or 150.

Aren't you overlooking the altitude of the aircraft?



http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text... .1.3.10.2.4.7
§ 91.113 Right-of-way rules: Except water operations.

(d) Converging. When aircraft of the same category are converging
at approximately the same altitude (except head-on, or nearly so),
the aircraft to the other's right has the right-of-way.

(g) Landing. Aircraft, while on final approach to land or while
landing, have the right-of-way over other aircraft in flight or
operating on the surface, except that they shall not take
advantage of this rule to force an aircraft off the runway surface
which has already landed and is attempting to make way for an
aircraft on final approach. When two or more aircraft are
approaching an airport for the purpose of landing, the aircraft at
the lower altitude has the right-of-way, but it shall not take
advantage of this rule to cut in front of another which is on
final approach to land or to overtake that aircraft.

"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
...

Aren't you overlooking the altitude of the aircraft?


No.

On Apr 29, 4:11 am, "Steven P. McNicoll"
wrote:
wrote in message

oups.com...



WEEEeeeeellll, come to think of it......yeah. Yeah, that pretty much
sums it up, for the most part. There being exceptions and all.

If you come to the playground, you should make nice with everyone
instead of telling them to all hold off, now that you're here and
all. Especially since some of them might not have radios.

Those already at the playground should make nice by properly accommodating
the aircraft on the straight-in approach.

I guess that depends on your definition of "properly". (Oh, Mr.
Hotshot wants to come in, and he's too important to join the circle
properly, like the rest of us. Better get out of his way!)

Having seen this discussion numerous other places, I conclude that it
will never be "settled".

I expect there are times when a straight-in is appropriate. In the
C172, C182, and the like that I fly, I can't imagine what that would
be (short of emergencies, but let's not clutter up the discussion).
Frankly, my total time is low enough that I'm not likely to do
anything not by the book, if I can help it.

In large airports that are still non-towered (after hours, etc.) you
might make a case, if you have a large aircraft. I don't know what
that case would be though.

In general, I view straight-ins the same way I view cutting in line at
a theater or whatever: there may be times, but in general it is at
least rude; more likely it can also be unsafe. It's "calling dibs",
and challenging others to accomodate you. There are too many
plausible situations where you won't be seen (necessary if the other
aircraft are NORDO). You could be too far away for someone turning
downwind to base or base to final to see.

Morgans wrote:

My apologies. I'm usually pretty good at "getting" sarcastic, but I sure
missed it this time.

I have a real sore spot for the people that charge all of the way up to the
barrels (on the interstates) to crowd into line, where there are lanes
closed down, too.

If you thought I was serious and didn't say anything, I'd go ahead and
think it's ok to walk on you. I don't have much respect for doormats.

Your traffic example is poignant (sp?). We've got alot of that here
and the damned yuppie in the BMW (Break My Windows) is always better
than we regular folk that are patiently waiting our turn.

Jon Woellhaf wrote:

Neither of you specified the runway?

Good point. No, we didn't. Standard practice around
here is to announce on entry to the pattern. After that,
everyone is using the same runway so it's never too big
of a deal.

Good practice, though, I'll make note.

On Mon, 30 Apr 2007 09:39:57 -0700, Erik
wrote in :

Good practice, though, I'll make note.

You'll find a lot more information on Traffic Advisory Practices at
Airports without Operating Control Towers he

http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Gu...A?OpenDocument

Recently, Erik posted:

Jon Woellhaf wrote:

Neither of you specified the runway?

Good point. No, we didn't. Standard practice around
here is to announce on entry to the pattern. After that,
everyone is using the same runway so it's never too big
of a deal.

Good practice, though, I'll make note.

It really is a good idea, especially at fields with more than one runway
and no established pattern. People can come and go from any direction.
Keep your eyes open, communicate clearly, and it's not a problem. I'm off
to do some practice at just such a field in a couple of hours.

Neil

"Neil Gould" wrote in message
t...

It really is a good idea, especially at fields with more than one runway
and no established pattern.


Every airport has an established pattern.