Sloppy Piloting

"Roger (K8RI)" wrote in
:



An example of the subconscious taking over: I lost an engine at
roughly 50 feet and 100 MPH on initial climb out from a 3800 foot
runway. there was none of this stopping to realize the engine had
quite and I needed to lower the nose. I immediately knew the engine
quit and while I was selecting an appropriate landing spot my hands
and feet were flying the airplane, shutting off the fuel, brining in
full flaps, and shutting down *stuff* This was low altitude with no
time to stop and reason out what to do and where to land. I recognized
I couldn't make the highway, the trees off the end of the runway
looked very uninviting and the airport fence didn't look all that bad.
By the time my vision had covered that I was already set up to set
back down straight ahead with maximum drag. I had 1200 feet of runway
left and barely enough energy to make the turn off in front of the
terminal.

100mph at 50 feet? that sonds pretty fast at that altitude for a Debonair.
Why?


Bertie

On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 01:24:29 -0500, Kevin Clarke
wrote:

Jay Honeck wrote:
This group's own Rick Durden published an article in AOPA Pilot this
month entitled "Are you a good pilot?" In it, Rick raised many
interesting points about things that can affect good piloting.

...

I'm interested in hearing what you do to combat the human tendency
toward sloppiness? Any tricks that you might use, or methods you
might employ?

Don't know if this was mentioned yet, but AOPA Flight Training current
issue (Feb 08) has a good article titled "Are you on your game?" It
lists 10 things that we get sloppy on. To recap

1. Sterile Cockpit: gone
2. Fly Headings: Whatever
3. Level Flight: More or less
4. See and Avoid: Avoid Seeing
5: Nice Field down the finding an emergency LZ
6. Stealth Traffic Pattern
7. Flat Landings
8. Go Around
9. Slow flight: Or an inability to perform slow
10: Stalls

wow such a detailed list.
you could do all that in the late evening at 65 knots and never even
raise a sweat. such a champion!

how about a sloppy pilot is the guy who cant fly his aircraft in a 20
knot crosswind.

fly a decent aircraft like a tailwind and you'll never get sloppy.
Stealth Pilot.

Stealth Pilot wrote in
:

On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 01:24:29 -0500, Kevin Clarke
wrote:

Jay Honeck wrote:
This group's own Rick Durden published an article in AOPA Pilot this
month entitled "Are you a good pilot?" In it, Rick raised many
interesting points about things that can affect good piloting.

...

I'm interested in hearing what you do to combat the human tendency
toward sloppiness? Any tricks that you might use, or methods you
might employ?

Don't know if this was mentioned yet, but AOPA Flight Training current
issue (Feb 08) has a good article titled "Are you on your game?" It
lists 10 things that we get sloppy on. To recap

1. Sterile Cockpit: gone
2. Fly Headings: Whatever
3. Level Flight: More or less
4. See and Avoid: Avoid Seeing
5: Nice Field down the finding an emergency LZ
6. Stealth Traffic Pattern
7. Flat Landings
8. Go Around
9. Slow flight: Or an inability to perform slow
10: Stalls

wow such a detailed list.
you could do all that in the late evening at 65 knots and never even
raise a sweat. such a champion!

how about a sloppy pilot is the guy who cant fly his aircraft in a 20
knot crosswind.

fly a decent aircraft like a tailwind and you'll never get sloppy.

I wouldn't imagine so!

Tell me a bit about the tailwind.. I've always had a bit of a yen for
one...



Bertie

Stealth Pilot wrote:
On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 01:24:29 -0500, Kevin Clarke
wrote:

Jay Honeck wrote:
This group's own Rick Durden published an article in AOPA Pilot this
month entitled "Are you a good pilot?" In it, Rick raised many
interesting points about things that can affect good piloting.

...

I'm interested in hearing what you do to combat the human tendency
toward sloppiness? Any tricks that you might use, or methods you
might employ?
Don't know if this was mentioned yet, but AOPA Flight Training current
issue (Feb 08) has a good article titled "Are you on your game?" It
lists 10 things that we get sloppy on. To recap

1. Sterile Cockpit: gone
2. Fly Headings: Whatever
3. Level Flight: More or less
4. See and Avoid: Avoid Seeing
5: Nice Field down the finding an emergency LZ
6. Stealth Traffic Pattern
7. Flat Landings
8. Go Around
9. Slow flight: Or an inability to perform slow
10: Stalls

wow such a detailed list.
you could do all that in the late evening at 65 knots and never even
raise a sweat. such a champion!

how about a sloppy pilot is the guy who cant fly his aircraft in a 20
knot crosswind.

fly a decent aircraft like a tailwind and you'll never get sloppy.
Stealth Pilot.

Don't know about the list but the premise is sound. Pilots do get sloppy
for lack of a better word and it's a serious safety issue.
I'm involved right now with an international cartel of professional
airshow demonstration pilots including the jet teams and we're studying
this exact issue. It will be discussed in detail at a symposium in
London later this month.
The answers are many and complex, and are slightly different as they
relate specifically to us in the display flying community. The AOPA is
just touching the tip of the iceberg with their approach, but it is a
serious issue and deserving of serious attention by the entire aviation
community.

--
Dudley Henriques

"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
...
Stealth Pilot wrote:
On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 01:24:29 -0500, Kevin Clarke
wrote:

Jay Honeck wrote:
This group's own Rick Durden published an article in AOPA Pilot this
month entitled "Are you a good pilot?" In it, Rick raised many
interesting points about things that can affect good piloting.

...

I'm interested in hearing what you do to combat the human tendency
toward sloppiness? Any tricks that you might use, or methods you
might employ?
Don't know if this was mentioned yet, but AOPA Flight Training current
issue (Feb 08) has a good article titled "Are you on your game?" It
lists 10 things that we get sloppy on. To recap

1. Sterile Cockpit: gone
2. Fly Headings: Whatever
3. Level Flight: More or less
4. See and Avoid: Avoid Seeing
5: Nice Field down the finding an emergency LZ
6. Stealth Traffic Pattern
7. Flat Landings
8. Go Around
9. Slow flight: Or an inability to perform slow
10: Stalls

wow such a detailed list.
you could do all that in the late evening at 65 knots and never even
raise a sweat. such a champion!

how about a sloppy pilot is the guy who cant fly his aircraft in a 20
knot crosswind.

fly a decent aircraft like a tailwind and you'll never get sloppy.
Stealth Pilot.

Don't know about the list but the premise is sound. Pilots do get sloppy
for lack of a better word and it's a serious safety issue.
I'm involved right now with an international cartel of professional
airshow demonstration pilots including the jet teams and we're studying
this exact issue. It will be discussed in detail at a symposium in London
later this month.
The answers are many and complex, and are slightly different as they
relate specifically to us in the display flying community. The AOPA is
just touching the tip of the iceberg with their approach, but it is a
serious issue and deserving of serious attention by the entire aviation
community.


They are all sloppy and all fjukkwits should be grounded

Bertie

William Hung wrote:
On Jan 8, 9:48 pm, Dudley Henriques wrote:
William Hung wrote:
On Jan 8, 9:40 pm, Dudley Henriques wrote:
William Hung wrote:
On Jan 7, 6:27 pm, gliderguynj wrote:
I'll admit to sloppy flying this weekend, and I hope I learned my
lesson. I recently joined a club that flies a C150. I transitioned
into it from a Cherokee. One of the biggest differences I noticed
other than where the wings are is the climb out. It's not exactly
robust. I've also been grilled to be very careful to make sure I use
the Carb Heat in my landing pattern. Well, I was doing pattern work
and wasn't using a checklist between landing and take offs. On the
last T/O I neglected to put the carb heat off, which was a carry over
from neglecting to fully clean up my ship after exiting the runway.
After lift off, which took a bit more runway than usual, the plane
just felt anemic. I realized something was wrong and looked at my
RPM's which were 200 less than what I needed. I checked the throttle,
that was correct, mixture ok flaps ok then I saw my carb heat was on.
DOH!!!!!!
If there had been any significant sink I would have been in deep
Kimchee. Had I been using my checklist this wouldn't have happened.
I was a sloppy pilot and a classic example of a few dumb errors that
combined could have put me in real harms way. It's very easy to kill
yourself if you aren't on top of your game. Sloppy is a great way to
describe it.
Doug
You say Kimchee like it was a bad thing. Yummmm Kimchee. smile
Wil
Buried in every back yard in Korea no less. Not bad really...especially
if it's REALLY fermented :-))
--
Dudley Henriques- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
You are Hardcore Dudley, lol. Those are too sour for me, I like mine
still a bit crunchy like Dill pickles.
Wil
More like desperation on my part. We were friends with a Korean family
over there who LOVED the stuff. I think they had a ton of it fermenting
in the back yard. They wouldn't leave me alone until I tried it. Then
they hounded me until I ate some more. :-))

--
Dudley Henriques- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I'm not Korean, but occasionally I like it. The fresher krispy ones.
I even eat their fermented oysters, talk about acquired taste! lol.
Not bad after several hundred tries, I even grew to like it. Well,
the Korean girl I was dating at the time made it all worth it. g

Her oyster was fermented? Ewwww...

On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 11:09:49 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip
wrote:

"Roger (K8RI)" wrote in
:



An example of the subconscious taking over: I lost an engine at
roughly 50 feet and 100 MPH on initial climb out from a 3800 foot
runway. there was none of this stopping to realize the engine had
quite and I needed to lower the nose. I immediately knew the engine
quit and while I was selecting an appropriate landing spot my hands
and feet were flying the airplane, shutting off the fuel, brining in
full flaps, and shutting down *stuff* This was low altitude with no
time to stop and reason out what to do and where to land. I recognized
I couldn't make the highway, the trees off the end of the runway
looked very uninviting and the airport fence didn't look all that bad.
By the time my vision had covered that I was already set up to set
back down straight ahead with maximum drag. I had 1200 feet of runway
left and barely enough energy to make the turn off in front of the
terminal.

100mph at 50 feet? that sonds pretty fast at that altitude for a Debonair.
Why?

Vy is listed at 104 MPH , or 90 knots. I hadn't quite reached it yet.

Roger (K8RI)


Bertie

"Roger (K8RI)" wrote in
:

On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 11:09:49 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip
wrote:

"Roger (K8RI)" wrote in
m:



An example of the subconscious taking over: I lost an engine at
roughly 50 feet and 100 MPH on initial climb out from a 3800 foot
runway. there was none of this stopping to realize the engine had
quite and I needed to lower the nose. I immediately knew the engine
quit and while I was selecting an appropriate landing spot my hands
and feet were flying the airplane, shutting off the fuel, brining in
full flaps, and shutting down *stuff* This was low altitude with no
time to stop and reason out what to do and where to land. I
recognized I couldn't make the highway, the trees off the end of the
runway looked very uninviting and the airport fence didn't look all
that bad. By the time my vision had covered that I was already set
up to set back down straight ahead with maximum drag. I had 1200
feet of runway left and barely enough energy to make the turn off in
front of the terminal.

100mph at 50 feet? that sonds pretty fast at that altitude for a
Debonair. Why?

Vy is listed at 104 MPH , or 90 knots. I hadn't quite reached it yet.

Wow! I never would have guessed!

I would have thought more like 75 knots. Learn something new.

Bertie

On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 01:14:15 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip
wrote:

"Roger (K8RI)" wrote in
:

On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 11:09:49 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip
wrote:

"Roger (K8RI)" wrote in
:



An example of the subconscious taking over: I lost an engine at
roughly 50 feet and 100 MPH on initial climb out from a 3800 foot
runway. there was none of this stopping to realize the engine had
quite and I needed to lower the nose. I immediately knew the engine
quit and while I was selecting an appropriate landing spot my hands
and feet were flying the airplane, shutting off the fuel, brining in
full flaps, and shutting down *stuff* This was low altitude with no
time to stop and reason out what to do and where to land. I
recognized I couldn't make the highway, the trees off the end of the
runway looked very uninviting and the airport fence didn't look all
that bad. By the time my vision had covered that I was already set
up to set back down straight ahead with maximum drag. I had 1200
feet of runway left and barely enough energy to make the turn off in
front of the terminal.

100mph at 50 feet? that sonds pretty fast at that altitude for a
Debonair. Why?

Vy is listed at 104 MPH , or 90 knots. I hadn't quite reached it yet.

Wow! I never would have guessed!

I would have thought more like 75 knots. Learn something new.

Best glide (at gross) is 120:-)) = ~ 600 fpm which makes for a pretty
good glide ratio.

OTOH with a normal VFR landing, final is 80 MPH/70 knots minus 1 MPH
for each 100# under gross. With just me and half fuel at about 75-76
MPH (and a fair amount of power, the old girl can make some really
short landings. With only my 40 minutes and 3 landings since last
March I'm not quite that proficient... yet. :-)) of course the
weather has been crap ever since that flight except yesterday and I
had too much to do. Maybe I can get out again this Saturday or Sunday
between snow showers. (winter storm coming in tonight.)

BTW that difference between best glide and a normal landing really
screws with some pilots minds. Little high on final. Lower the nose
and you find the extra speed will move your landing spot farther
down the runway. OTOH get 'er down to the proper speed and with those
big flaps she'll come down right steep with a surprising rate of
descent too. :-))

Power off landings use a lot more runway than normal landings
Roger (K8RI)

Bertie

"Roger (K8RI)" wrote in
:

Wow! I never would have guessed!

I would have thought more like 75 knots. Learn something new.

Best glide (at gross) is 120:-)) = ~ 600 fpm which makes for a pretty
good glide ratio.


Pretty good? That's an L/D of 20/1.. Couldn't be. I'd be seriously
impressed with 14/1

OTOH with a normal VFR landing, final is 80 MPH/70 knots minus 1 MPH
for each 100# under gross. With just me and half fuel at about 75-76
MPH (and a fair amount of power, the old girl can make some really
short landings. With only my 40 minutes and 3 landings since last
March I'm not quite that proficient... yet. :-)) of course the
weather has been crap ever since that flight except yesterday and I
had too much to do. Maybe I can get out again this Saturday or Sunday
between snow showers. (winter storm coming in tonight.)

The the old V tail I once flew was extremely good at short field stuff.
I remember being amazed.

BTW that difference between best glide and a normal landing really
screws with some pilots minds. Little high on final. Lower the nose
and you find the extra speed will move your landing spot farther
down the runway. OTOH get 'er down to the proper speed and with those
big flaps she'll come down right steep with a surprising rate of
descent too. :-))

Yeah, thsat makes sense.

Power off landings use a lot more runway than normal landings
Roger (K8RI)


Well, you could fiddle around with that with some odd technique, but
it's true of most airplanes that you can touch down a bit more slowly
with the power on.

Bertie