Lessons learned from the Oregon tragedy

He was so cold by the time he started to think about
survival shelter and a fire he couldn't think and didn't use
the 50 gallons of kerosene, or the gasoline he had on the
sled and in the snowmobile.


Once hypothermia sets in, you are on very dangerous ground. Typically
a person will start doing very irrational things like throw their
jacket away, or in this case, forget about the kerosene.

I've both read that from reliable sources and heard the same from a former
coworker who was simply lucky enouth to be rescued in time.

Also included in my coworker's story was that he had ceased feeling cold,
and that the snow started to look warm and comfortable.

Peter

Also, ski clothes are designed to keep you cool as your
exercise very hard on the down hill runs.



"Jim Macklin" wrote
in message ...
| Ski clothes are NOT designed for wilderness survival, but
| mobility and aerodynamics. Hunting and mountain climbing
| clothes are designed to keep your body warm, dry and as a
| layer system. Some hunting clothes are designed to be
hard
| to see, but visibility is enhanced with blaze vests and
| mountain climbing stuff often has many bright colors so
| climbers can be seen and identified by color.
|
|
|
| "Peter Dohm" wrote in message
| ...
|| It seems that I forgot to read my post one last time
after
| editing, with the
|| result that I left out the main point--my own
| unsuccessfull outfitting was
|| for a ski trip some years ago. (The poor choices and
| usage are only
|| annoying at a ski resort, but dissastrous in the
| wilderness.) The parapragh
|| sould have read:
||
|| ----------
||
|| With respect to the clothing issues, it is true that they
| were
|| underequipped. However, having shopped for cold weather
| gear in an area
|| that doesn't receive cold weather, I am inclined to judge
| less harshly.
|| Those boots that were supposed to be the cat's pajamas
can
| be annoying at a
|| ski resort, since you can't walk around outside as far as
| you planned, and
|| the rest of the outerwear that you used incorrectly may
| cause you to "catch
|| your death"; but a bottle of wine and a long soak in the
| hot tub will
|| probably cure all that ails you. OTOH, in the
wilderness,
| a lot of
|| incorrectly recommended clothing (or simply inexperience)
| is a severe
|| handicap!
||
|| ----------
||
|| I'm sorry about the way my post looked with the omission.
||
|| Peter
||
||
||
|
|

NASA TV too, you get the heads up display on shuttle
approach and landings.


"Newps" wrote in message
...
|
|
| wrote:
|
|
| Unless you're into reality TV, television is just
terrible.
|
|
| Military channel, History, Discovery, Discovery Times,
TLC. There's a
| lot of great TV out there.

Hypoxia and freezing to death are both said to be the best
way to go, except for being exhausted by a team of Swedish
bikini ski team girls.



"Peter Dohm" wrote in message
news:PtYeh.1114$U6.786@bigfe9...
| He was so cold by the time he started to think about
| survival shelter and a fire he couldn't think and
didn't use
| the 50 gallons of kerosene, or the gasoline he had on
the
| sled and in the snowmobile.
|
|
| Once hypothermia sets in, you are on very dangerous
ground. Typically
| a person will start doing very irrational things like
throw their
| jacket away, or in this case, forget about the kerosene.
|
| I've both read that from reliable sources and heard the
same from a former
| coworker who was simply lucky enouth to be rescued in
time.
|
| Also included in my coworker's story was that he had
ceased feeling cold,
| and that the snow started to look warm and comfortable.
|
| Peter
|
|

You don't starve in six days. You can run out of water, but
cold exposure is more likely. Was anybody looking for the
person you spoke about?



"Ron Wanttaja" wrote in message
...
| On 10 Dec 2006 08:35:07 -0800, wrote:
|
|
| Matt Whiting wrote:
|
| I know that is the standard advice, but I'm not sure I
could follow it
| for more than a day or two. Personally, I'd rather die
trying than die
| sitting waiting on someone who may never come.
|
| I know what you're saying Matt, but I don't think I've
ever heard of
| anybody dying in their car when they got stuck. I'm sure
there's a
| couple of cases, but from all the stories I've heard in
our general
| area (you're in Montrose right?) the vast majority of
exposure deaths
| were when people left a protective shelter.
|
| Seattle-area news last night said that this was not the
first death due to a car
| getting stuck on the same stretch of road. Another
happened about twenty,
| twenty-five years ago. The driver stayed with the
vehicle. He kept a diary, it
| ended after about sixty days. Death due to starvation.
|
| Ron Wanttaja

If your car is white or brown or green, carry a blaze orange
or lime green space blanket and use it as a car cover, will
help keep the warmer at night and really stand out in the
day time.



"Peter Dohm" wrote in message
news:PoYeh.1113$U6.953@bigfe9...
|
| With respect to the clothing issues, it is true that
they were
| underequipped. However, having shopped for cold
weather gear in an area
| that doesn't receive cold weather, I am inclined to
judge less harshly.
| Those boots that were supposed to be the cat's pajamas
can be annoying,
| since you can't walk around outside as far as you
planned, and the rest
| of
| the outerwear that you used incorrectly may cause you
to "catch your
| death";
| but a bottle of wine and a long soak in the hot tub
will probably cure
| all
| that ails you. OTOH, in the wilderness, a lot of
incorrectly
| recommended
| clothing (or simply inexperience) is a severe
handicap!
|
|
| You don't need giant muk luks. A good hiking boot would
have been a
| tremendous asset. Hunting boots would have been better
yet and snow
| boots the best, With tennis shoes his feet were frozen
10 minutes after
| he left the car. Any hat that covers the ears would
have been a huge
| difference. Any mittens or gloves likewise. To drive
into the
| mountains without those was reckless. To leave the car
without those
| was a death sentence.
|
| All agreed, having learned a little from my ignorance
years ago, except
| possibly the last item. If the car was white, or any
earth tone, then I
| suspect that all bets may be off. :-(
|
| Peter
|
|

wrote:
I don't have cable and I don't watch TV (except DVDs). I could afford
it, but have just found it pointless after the past couple of years
(the loss of the non-Fox Speedvision and Wings channel in particular).
Unless you're into reality TV, television is just terrible. I do check
CNN and my local news almost every day, and didn't see this apparently
high profile story.

Anyway, as I said originally I'm sorry to hear about this. But having
lived and played in and around the high country (CO front range
mountains), I find this lack of preparation irresponsible and frankly
not very smart. Leaving your car in the 1st place is a BAD MOVE...

I have only what I get with rabbit ears (two local channels and a very
snowy Fox channel), however, I do check MSNBC and CNN on the internet.
This story was plastered everywhere for more than a week. It was pretty
hard to miss, but I'm impressed that you did! :-) It is good to get
away from it all now and then.

Matt

wrote:

Matt Whiting wrote:

I know that is the standard advice, but I'm not sure I could follow it
for more than a day or two. Personally, I'd rather die trying than die
sitting waiting on someone who may never come.



I know what you're saying Matt, but I don't think I've ever heard of
anybody dying in their car when they got stuck. I'm sure there's a
couple of cases, but from all the stories I've heard in our general
area (you're in Montrose right?) the vast majority of exposure deaths
were when people left a protective shelter.

No, I'm from northern PA. Around here we have about as many people die
from CO in their car than from leaving and hiking out. Granted, we have
few places as remote as the mountains of the west, however, we do have
many places where you can be 20 miles from civilization. Just look at
the Detroit sectional in and around Bradford PA.

Matt

Ron Wanttaja wrote:

On 10 Dec 2006 08:35:07 -0800, wrote:


Matt Whiting wrote:

I know that is the standard advice, but I'm not sure I could follow it
for more than a day or two. Personally, I'd rather die trying than die
sitting waiting on someone who may never come.

I know what you're saying Matt, but I don't think I've ever heard of
anybody dying in their car when they got stuck. I'm sure there's a
couple of cases, but from all the stories I've heard in our general
area (you're in Montrose right?) the vast majority of exposure deaths
were when people left a protective shelter.


Seattle-area news last night said that this was not the first death due to a car
getting stuck on the same stretch of road. Another happened about twenty,
twenty-five years ago. The driver stayed with the vehicle. He kept a diary, it
ended after about sixty days. Death due to starvation.

I just can't imagine sitting in a car for 60 days starving to death.
I'd be on the road after a couple of says most likely, certainly after a
week I'd be outta there. I'd rather die quickly from exposure than from
starvation.


Matt

Jim Macklin wrote:

You don't starve in six days. You can run out of water, but
cold exposure is more likely. Was anybody looking for the
person you spoke about?

What part of sixty didn't you understand? :-)


Matt