"The New Soldier" by John Kerry et al

Here is the deal. It will never be settled. It wasn't settled back then
and it won't be settled now. For the next several elections, the candidates
will all have been on the wrong side of the argument according to some
folks.

Bottom line is: we all took our stands at the time, all were flawed by a
system that was inherently flawed and there were no winners.

Just let it go.

Well, like it or not, it's all on the table again. I guess since the
Libs think they have a bona fide war "hero" in their ranks, they can
somehow finally make hay over VN. It's a perverse sort of logic, but
that's what they think.

That's okay. Frankly, I'm interested in what else is in Mr Kerry's
VN personnel file besides the medals. Has he released it?

Then there's his conduct immediately after the war, which doesn't seem
all that distinquished to me.

http://www.nationalreview.com/owens/owens.asp

You can see, I think, that Kerry came upon his plan to run for
President fairly early and has structured his behavior accordingly.

The above comports, so far, with my assessment of Kerry: he's a
typical liberal: arrogant, condescending, two-faced and a liar, and
opposed to a strong America, which amounts to affirmative action for
3rd world dictators and the like.

Politically, he favors the French view of the ideal US, i.e., the US
needs to be subservient to the international "community," which means
old Europe and France again. In short, he's a proponent of multilateralism,
UN, weakened military and intelligence community etc.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/Conten...dmula.asp?pg=1

Course this anti-military, anti-intelligence stands him in good stead
with the libs. He can claim to be a military man and yet be anti-military.
He can vote against DoD and intelligence appropriations, yet complain
that the military is spread too thin or point out intelligence failures.

Constrast this behavior to say the typical liberal take on education.
The US education system is a shambles, mostly as a result of liberal
policies and practices, but what do they do? Advocate more money!

If you translate this to defense, which I'd say is certainly as
important as education, they advocate spending less money.

Then there's Kerry, the man. Well, we've already got some indication
of what kind of person he is with his post Vietnam demogoguery. Do these
latest allegations about his personal life affirm or contradict that?

http://www.nationalreview.com/commen...alen120502.asp

He's a man concerned about attaining wealth, witness his marriages to
wealthy women, and the acquistion of power.

He sounds a lot like Bill Clinton, but he's not a charmer.

wd

He's probably referring to the brouhaha over the increases in HDP and
FSA that Congress authorized in April '03 (retroactive to October '02),
which were set to expire in October '03 if they weren't made permanent
by Congress.

OK, I do remember that, but that was a congressional issue, not a presidential
one.


BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"

It's never been surprising how active duty types tend to support
presidents or presidential candidates who they perceive as being
friendly ($$) to the military or willing to use it at the drop of a hat.

Boy is your last name a contridiction. It never surprises me how many ignorant
political tools exist on this ng.

First off, if your assertion above were true, the active military would have
*loved* Clinton, since he, quite literally, used the military at the drop of a
hat. Not only did most active military not love Clinton, most detested the man
and couldn't wait for him to leave office. So your initial argument is a joke
(not surprising). Secondly, is it not possible for you you to not support Bush,
but not support Kerry either? I mean, that's not the case with me (I think Bush
is the right man for the job at the current time), but there are a growing
number of registered democrats who are concerned about Kerry, his ties to
lobbyists and his tremendously left charging voting record. Are these people
supporters of Bush ? No genius, they're not.

What I don't understand is how any vet, particularly those such as
yourself who served their country in combat, can have such a hard-on for
the person now running this country...and worse yet...or consider him a
patriot.

I'm not a vet (yet) cluebag. I support Bush, and plan on voting for him next
November because he's doing exactly what no Democrat since Trueman would do.
Put the USA first, not some pretend "global community". Every nation in the
world looks out for its own interests first, yet when the US does it, its a
horrible thing. Perhaps its our current world position, I don't know, but in
the wake of 9/11, we can't afford to worry about anyone ahead of ourselves.
Something Bush will do (and has done) and something none of the current
democrats in the race (short of *maybe* Clark, who's gone) is willing to do.

A true patriot would not constantly take money and services away from
people who wore a uniform for their country.

You're kidding right? Clinton slashed veterans benifits to the bone while
people like you stood by and applauded, now your concerned? Please....

I guess getting permanently disabled for your country isn't
reason enough to merit benefits from chickenhawk politicians who use our
blood to fight their little vendettas

By "little vendettas" I'm assuming you mean Iraq, but somehow I think you
supported Clinton when he crafted US national policy on Iraq to be regime
change. What, its OK to write down, but not do it? Hypocrit.

It no longer surprises me to see presidents doing this. Bush's daddy did
it to us as well.

Forget about your boy Billy Jeff?

I guess the definition of patriotism means being willing to kick-ass
anywhere in the world. And if one isn't willing to do it themselves,
they can just go hide out in the ANG or wherever...as long as they're
still willing and eager to let others fight.

At least he didn't run to Europe and protest the war from there. Seems you give
Billy Jeff a lot of latitude but Bush none. Gee, I wonder why that is? Stop
looking at parties and l think for yourself.


BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"

On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 18:49:25 GMT, Michael Wise wrote:

There are some 230,000 disbaled vets having to wait over 6 months just
to get their first VA doctor visit...

Hmmm... the first time I went to the VA I simply took my DD214 with me to
prove my veteran status, filled out the paperwork, and was in to see a
doctor within the hour.

-Jeff B.
yeff at erols dot com

In article ,
(BUFDRVR) wrote:

It's never been surprising how active duty types tend to support
presidents or presidential candidates who they perceive as being
friendly ($$) to the military or willing to use it at the drop of a hat.

Boy is your last name a contridiction. It never surprises me how many
ignorant
political tools exist on this ng.

Pot, kettle, black. 'nuff said.


Not only did most active military not love Clinton, most detested the
man
and couldn't wait for him to leave office.


And you know this since you're the self-appointed spokesman for the
active duty military...right?


So your initial argument is a joke
(not surprising). Secondly, is it not possible for you you to not support
Bush,
but not support Kerry either?

Interesting syntax. It's possible to support both, neither, or either
or. I happen to support Mr. Kerry and know he will make a fine president
when we elect him in.


I mean, that's not the case with me (I think
Bush
is the right man for the job at the current time),


What job is that? Sacrificing American lives under false pretenses?
Caring more about spending countless millions of dollars in failed
nation building while ignoring the losss of 2.2 million jobs at home?
What exactly is he right for?



but there are a growing
number of registered democrats who are concerned about Kerry, his ties to
lobbyists and his tremendously left charging voting record. Are these people
supporters of Bush ? No genius, they're not.


And you know this, because in addition to being the supreme spokesman
for active duty military, you are also a political pollster very much in
tune with what a "growing number of Democrats" are concerned
with...right? Even so, I could care less about party labels any more,
because they mean so little. I vote on the issues, and who I think will
best address them. As a disabled veteran, I put a lot of importance on
how a candidate treats his country's vets. Bush has done more to gut VA
benefits than any president since his daddy. How you, a combat vet, can
defend that with a straight face is beyond me.


What I don't understand is how any vet, particularly those such as
yourself who served their country in combat, can have such a hard-on for
the person now running this country...and worse yet...or consider him a
patriot.

I'm not a vet (yet) cluebag.


Fair enough, my mistake...and it certainly helps explain your
viewpoint...although name-calling is not necessary.


I support Bush, and plan on voting for him next
November

Good for you. My vote cancels yours out. ; )


because he's doing exactly what no Democrat since Trueman would do.
Put the USA first, not some pretend "global community".


Is Bush's open support for the continued off-shoring of American
high-tech jobs to 2nd and 3rd world countries and example of Bush
putting the USA first? Or is your definition of putting the USA first
only apply when it comes to using military force?



Every nation in the
world looks out for its own interests first, yet when the US does it, its a
horrible thing.

Who said that?

Perhaps its our current world position, I don't know, but in
the wake of 9/11, we can't afford to worry about anyone ahead of ourselves.


Yes, indeed....9/11 is the answer to everything.


Something Bush will do (and has done) and something none of the current
democrats in the race (short of *maybe* Clark, who's gone) is willing to do.

A true patriot would not constantly take money and services away from
people who wore a uniform for their country.

You're kidding right? Clinton slashed veterans benifits to the bone while
people like you stood by and applauded, now your concerned? Please....

Which benefits did he slash? (citations please). Secondly, I have never
applauded any cut to VA benefits...no matter who is making the cutting.
However, George Bush has slashed more VA funding than any president in
recent history.


I guess getting permanently disabled for your country isn't
reason enough to merit benefits from chickenhawk politicians who use our
blood to fight their little vendettas

By "little vendettas" I'm assuming you mean Iraq, but somehow I think you
supported Clinton when he crafted US national policy on Iraq to be regime
change. What, its OK to write down, but not do it? Hypocrit.

Keywords he "I think"

You think wrong, so please take your straw man out of the picture.


It no longer surprises me to see presidents doing this. Bush's daddy did
it to us as well.

Forget about your boy Billy Jeff?


Who said anything about who "my boy" is?

It's very tired to see right-wing syncophants to George Bush try to
paint anybody who doesn't support them or their incompetent president as
somehow equaling the support for somebody else.


I guess the definition of patriotism means being willing to kick-ass
anywhere in the world. And if one isn't willing to do it themselves,
they can just go hide out in the ANG or wherever...as long as they're
still willing and eager to let others fight.


At least he didn't run to Europe and protest the war from there. Seems you
give
Billy Jeff a lot of latitude but Bush none.

There you go creating your straw men again. When did I say I gave
Clinton any latitude for anything? The last I checked, Bill Clinton is
not running for president.


Gee, I wonder why that is? Stop
looking at parties and l think for yourself.


I don't look at parties and don't belong to one...therfore have no
choice but to think for myself. You, however, would do well to heed your
own advice.



--Mike

Most Republicans today were Democrats 30 years ago,

That was certainly the case with me.

Jack Kennedy created a lot of Democrats. Richard Nixon created even
more.

all the best -- Dan Ford
email:

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

He can claim to be a military man and yet be anti-military.

In short, the man Joe Ellis wished he had been?


all the best -- Dan Ford
email:

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

In article ,
Yeff wrote:

There are some 230,000 disbaled vets having to wait over 6 months just
to get their first VA doctor visit...

Hmmm... the first time I went to the VA I simply took my DD214 with me to
prove my veteran status, filled out the paperwork, and was in to see a
doctor within the hour.


And was that "first time" within the last year?


--Mike

(BUFDRVR) wrote in
:

What I don't understand is how any vet, particularly those such
as yourself who served their country in combat, can have such a
hard-on for the person now running this country...and worse
yet...or consider him a patriot.

I'm not a vet (yet) cluebag. I support Bush, and plan on voting
for him next November because he's doing exactly what no
Democrat since Trueman would do. Put the USA first, not some
pretend "global community". Every nation in the world looks out
for its own interests first, yet when the US does it, its a
horrible thing.

I don't think so, really. Most nations -people- are ordinary
folks like you and me, and share a reasonably balanced view
of that of self-interest and scrifice. It's the arrogance and
stupidity by which things are done that upset ordinary people.

No offence here, but I really do not believe that the self-
interest, alienation and narrowmindness stops at the border,
it continues right inwards.



Regards...

On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 19:12:49 GMT, Fred J. McCall wrote:

"Admin" wrote:

:I don't have to prove it anymore than you should. Double Standard there, ol
:buddy. Kerry did get the medals. Now whether they were earned or not, that
:is questionable. While medals weren't given out at the rate they are today,
:some go them for political reasons back then. Oh, it's thursday, let's give
:the Congressman's kid a medal so I can make General someday.

That sort of thing pretty much stopped at Bronze Star. Kerry got a
Silver Star. That sort of thing was also more common (I'm told) in
the Army and Air Force than elsewhere. Kerry was Navy.

I judge by what is going on now. Kerry lost a lot of credibility with
me when he originally jumped on board Terry McAuliffe's lunacy about
Bush's 'desertion' from the ANG. It shows he's made of the same
putrid stuff that those who went to Florida and argued that military
votes should be invalidated were.

McAuliffe may energize the loon fringes of the Democratic Party, but
they need to get rid of him. He alienates everyone else, and those
are the voters you need to win.

Remember LBJ? He also got a politically motivated Silver Star.

Al Minyard