Spinning (mis)concepts

I often slip our club gliders down (1-34 and Grob III).

The way I look at it, being right on the glide slope is
just "more intense" than arriving a little high and slipping.
Especially when that end of the runway is really rowdy.

When I fly the two place and I'm landing, my arrival height is
occassionally of concern to the copilot. Then when I slip it down
they ask why didn't I just set up lower?

Oh well. To each his own.

David

Marc Ramsey wrote in message om...
Eric Greenwell wrote:
Refresh my memory, which doesn't seem to include this. Under what
circumstances and glider types would this be true? If I'm too high, I
adjust the pattern or open the airbrakes. I will slip on final for
crosswind compensation, but why would I want make slipping turns in the
pattern or elswhere?

When I'm flying our Duo, a slipping turn from base to final is my
standard procedure. I like to carry extra energy in the pattern (too
much flying at Truckee), but the airbrakes aren't terribly effective, so
I use a slipping turn to dissipate the excess energy, and hold it
until I'm at an acceptable (shallow) approach angle. It also makes it a
lot easier to see what's happening on the runway from the back seat.

Marc

Tom Seim wrote:

When I do high rate dutch rolls, the glider seems to
perfectly rotate around the axis, but the string is way
all over the place. Explain THAT whydontcha? :PPP

OK, I'll bite again.

Dutch rolls are, by definition, uncoordinated. So I would expect the
yaw string to be behaving as you said. It is your perception that is
wrong.

Tom

Assume you make a glider which is a big cylinder with a huge
hollow tube going through the middle. I lay it on its
side and put a clear plexiglass on the top part for the pilot to
see out of, and give him a seat inside. Then I put three yawstrings
on it: one on the plexiglass "canopy", one in the middle of the
center tube, and one on the bottom.

I drop this "glider bomb" and it heads straight down (maybe there's
a drogue chute). A gyro rotates the cylinder on the way down.
Assuming no surface friction and ignoring gyroscopic
precession for now, all three yaw strings, from the
pilot seat, show different things. If the cylinder is
rolling right, the "glider bomb pilot" sees the yawstring on
the canopy and instinctively wants to add right rudder.
The string in the center of pressure shows straight, and the
bottom string would make the pilot want to add left rudder.

None of this has anything to do with gravity, adverse yaw,
or the cylinder slipping or skidding.

I contest that there is an error caused on the yaw string
depending on the roll rate, airspeed, and the distance of the
yaw string above the center of pressure, and this will
always tell the pilot to add more rudder in the direction
of roll (assuming the yawstring is above the center of
pressure), i.e. skid.

The size and importance of this error is another
matter entirely :PPP

On 1/29/04 9:00 AM, in article ,
"Owain Walters" wrote:

... accusing every comp pilot of not owning
up to incidents is just plain rubbish not to mention
insulting.

Is this a claim that the statistics based on reports of accidents/incidents
involving competition pilots are never skewed by the actions these pilots
may take to avoid being included in official reporting?

No one accused "every comp pilot", though the implication that some would
like to remain unidentified in certain reporting is inescapable and, I
suspect, quite true.

More evil tricks by the "dirty old men" of EU soaring is it, Owain?


-------
Jack
-------

This is one of the biggest nonsense myths in the soaring community. It
amounts to an irrational prejudice towards power pilots who transition to
gliders.
There is considerably greater difference between, say, flying a Bonanza and
flying a Boeing 757 than flying any glider.
Gliders are incredibly easy to fly. Simply be aware of the differences.
It really amounts to attitude. (In both senses of the word.)
When flying a Bonanza, think Bonanza. When flying a King Air, think King
Air. When flying a B-757, think 757. When flying a F18, think F18. When
flying a glider, think glider. When flying a motor glider, think glider.
It can't be much simpler.

Allan

"Mark James Boyd" wrote in message
news:401acc7c$1@darkstar...
Pete Zeugma wrote:

Ah, power planes, not gliders! Do you not think perhaps
we should be differentiating between rudder usage in
power plane, and a glider? I started flying originally
in gliders, so I dont have any bad habits from power
flying, and when I fly powered aircraft, i cant help
but fly coordinated all the time. I know that power
pilots who make the transition to gliders quite often
make fundemental errors due to the power mindset when
sat in a glider. What do you think?

Absolutely there are subtle differences that get overlooked.
Primacy is a factor here. Use of spoilers, wheel brake
not at the feet, no stall horn, can't use throttle to
descend, actually seeing adverse yaw, etc. All these
were probably much harder to learn (unlearn) than if
one started as a glider pilot first.

....Snip....

Jack wrote:

On 1/29/04 9:00 AM, in article ,
"Owain Walters" wrote:

... accusing every comp pilot of not owning
up to incidents is just plain rubbish not to mention
insulting.

Is this a claim that the statistics based on reports of
accidents/incidents involving competition pilots are never skewed by the
actions these pilots may take to avoid being included in official
reporting?

How do they do this??

No one accused "every comp pilot", though the implication that some would
like to remain unidentified in certain reporting is inescapable and, I
suspect, quite true.

I'm sure that lot's of people involved in accidents (comps or otherwise)
would like to remain unidentified to save embarrassment.

You made the potentially libellous insinuation that "some" unnamed pilots
actually subvert the system to achieve this. Or it would be except there
is not one substantiated fact behind the innuendo.

And you are then disingenuous enough to express surprise that a competition
pilot takes offence?

--
Soar the big sky
The real name on the left is richard

At 03:30 30 January 2004, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Nyal Williams wrote:

Getting down fast! I was getting ready to enter the
wave window at Mt. Mitchell, NC, and the cold suddenly
told me my bladder was about to let go. Full divebrakes
in a slipping turn got me on the runway in time, but
I had to jump out and run to a ditch beside the runway;
at 75 yards, the FBO toilet was just too far away.

What speed did you use? Could you have just used full
spoilers and
spiralled down at 90 knots or so (or faster, if air
was smooth), and had
the same descent rate?
--
-----
change 'netto' to 'net' to email me directly

Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA

80kts in an ASK-21, but who knows the accuracy of
an ASI in a slip? I was turning to the left with full
right rudder and the nose as far down as I dared; the
noise was tremendous.

"ADP" wrote in message
...
This is one of the biggest nonsense myths in the soaring community. It
amounts to an irrational prejudice towards power pilots who transition to
gliders.

Gosh, don't I know it! After 2+ years of CFIGing, often teaching very
accomplished power pilots transitioning to gliders, I have turned the
tables. I am learning to fly the old fashioned way, bouncing around the
pattern and the practice area in a tired but trusty Cessna. My instructors,
who know nothing of gliders and have never before dealt with any transition
student, see many of my glider "skills" as a series of curious "bad habits"
to be corrected. (They were particularly horrified by my brisk, power-off,
stall recoveries) As they have no frame of reference with which to deal
with me, I just tell them to think of me as a primary student and start from
the beginning.

Vaughn

"Vaughn" wrote in message
...

"ADP" wrote in message
...
This is one of the biggest nonsense myths in the soaring community. It
amounts to an irrational prejudice towards power pilots who transition
to
gliders.

Gosh, don't I know it! After 2+ years of CFIGing, often teaching
very
accomplished power pilots transitioning to gliders, I have turned the
tables. I am learning to fly the old fashioned way, bouncing around the
pattern and the practice area in a tired but trusty Cessna. My
instructors,
who know nothing of gliders and have never before dealt with any
transition
student, see many of my glider "skills" as a series of curious "bad
habits"
to be corrected. (They were particularly horrified by my brisk,
power-off,
stall recoveries) As they have no frame of reference with which to deal
with me, I just tell them to think of me as a primary student and start
from
the beginning.

Vaughn


You'll be so good at landings they'll probably never get around to teaching
go-arounds.

One day, an airplane will taxi on to your runway while you are on short
final. You'll probably revert to glider mode and land the Cessna on the
grass parallel to the runway. Then, you'll have to think up a really good
story to explain that.

Bill Daniels

"Bill Daniels" wrote in message
...



You'll be so good at landings they'll probably never get around to
teaching
go-arounds.

Yep, landings are not much of an issue.

One day, an airplane will taxi on to your runway while you are on short
final. You'll probably revert to glider mode and land the Cessna on the
grass parallel to the runway. Then, you'll have to think up a really good
story to explain that.

I had a talk with the chief instructor about just that the other day.
I explained to her that "go arounds" are not part of the glider experience.
We decided to make that a priority.

Vaughn



Bill Daniels

"Vaughn" wrote in message
...

"Bill Daniels" wrote in message
...



You'll be so good at landings they'll probably never get around to
teaching go-arounds.

Yep, landings are not much of an issue.

One day, an airplane will taxi on to your runway while you are on short
final. You'll probably revert to glider mode and land the Cessna on the
grass parallel to the runway. Then you'll have to think up a really
good
story to explain that.

I had a talk with the chief instructor about just that the other day.
I explained to her that "go arounds" are not part of the glider
experience.
We decided to make that a priority.

Vaughn


Power pilots think:
Altitude must be exact. Speed is good and more speed is better.

Glider pilots think:
Speed must be exact. Altitude is good and more altitude is better.

Bill Daniels