Rutan hits 200k feet! Almost there!

From: "Keith Willshaw"
Date: 5/14/2004 3:26 PM Central Daylight Time
Message-id:


"Steve Hix" wrote in message
...
In article . net,
"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote:

"C J Campbell" wrote in message
...

The earlier flights were not done in a re-usable spacecraft.

So what?

So that is a large part of what makes it different from the single-shot
suborbital flights of the past.

Not to mention the thousands of man-hours and cast of thousands needed
to turn around the shuttle.

One step on the road to non-government, gold-plated, decades-long
development projects type spaceflight.

The problem is that merely reaching the altitude is only a
part of the problem. The real issue is achieving orbital velocity
and the Rutan aircraft doesnt achive much more than 15%
of the velocity required to put something in orbit.

Keith

The X-prize doesn't require orbital flight. Only that it reach a certain hight
with 3 persons aboard and is repeated with the same craft within a specified
period.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

In article . net,
"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote:

"Chad Irby" wrote in message
om...

...you haven't read the actual rules yet, have you?

Yup.

Then you aren't paying attention to what you're reading, then.

So the significant thing about the X-Prize is that it requires a three-place
craft?

No, the significant thing is that it requires a craft that can carry a
payload of a few hundred extra pounds, along with the capability of
flying without major refurbishment. This has not been done before.

You said you read the rules - why don't you know this, then?

The two semi-qualifying (100 km+) X-15 flights took place over
a month apart, in the #3 airframe.

The point is the X-Prize does not require any new technology or capability.

Except for the whole "carry a payload and be reusable without a long
turnaround time" bit.

--
cirby at cfl.rr.com

Remember: Objects in rearview mirror may be hallucinations.
Slam on brakes accordingly.

In article . net,
"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote:

"Chad Irby" wrote in message
om...

It did, after some lower and slower flights.

Not after the high-altitude flights, though, and the average gap
between "hard" flights of the same airframes was a month and a
half.

That it didn't happen doesn't mean it wasn't possible.

But it also doesn't mean that it *was* possible.

Since it didn't happen, then the burden of proof is on *your* side.

--
cirby at cfl.rr.com

Remember: Objects in rearview mirror may be hallucinations.
Slam on brakes accordingly.

From: "Steven P. McNicoll"

"Chad Irby" wrote in message
. com...

A suborbital flight, and repeat it with the same vehicle in a 14 day
period?

Funny, I can't remember hearing of such a thing.


The capability was there. Individual X-15s were flown within two week
periods a number of times and the craft was flown above 100 km.



I think you don't understand the actual rules or intent of the Ansari
X-Prize.


You'd be wrong abut that.

Actually based on your X-15 comment YOU would be wrong. The X-prize requires at
least 3 seats on board.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

In article . net,
"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote:

What is significant about a private corporation duplicating a feat
that a government agency accomplished decades earlier?

....for a tiny fraction of the cost, and having the ability to repeat the
feat in less than two weeks (which the government program didn't manage).

--
cirby at cfl.rr.com

Remember: Objects in rearview mirror may be hallucinations.
Slam on brakes accordingly.

"Chad Irby" wrote in message
om...

Then you aren't paying attention to what you're reading, then.


I understand them completely.



No, the significant thing is that it requires a craft that can carry a
payload of a few hundred extra pounds, along with the capability of
flying without major refurbishment. This has not been done before.


No? What was the payload capacity of the X-15?



You said you read the rules - why don't you know this, then?


What is it you think I don't know?



Except for the whole "carry a payload and be reusable without a long
turnaround time" bit.


The X-15 carried a payload and was reusable without a long turnaround time.

"B2431" wrote in message
...

Actually based on your X-15 comment YOU would be wrong.
The X-prize requires at least 3 seats on board.


What was in my X-15 comment that suggested I didn't know the X-Prize
required a 3-seat vehicle?

"Chad Irby" wrote in message
om...

...for a tiny fraction of the cost, and having the ability to repeat
the feat in less than two weeks (which the government program
didn't manage).


So what's significant about it?

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote...

The point is the X-Prize does not require any new technology or
capability.

If it's so mundane, why hasn't anyone claimed the prize yet?

In article om,
"John T" writes:
"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
ink.net

Why?

Just because.

I don't think there's any sort of "Wow! NOBODY's done this before!" aspect
to this. Of *course* men have flown in space. The only difference here -
and the challenge of the task - is to do it with private money.

Why is that a challenge? Because traditionally space travel has only been
done at the expense of billions of dollars and huge government
bureaucracies. The X-Prize is out to demonstrate that space travel doesn't
have to remain the domain of governments.

And that was also, in fact, the Big Deal behind teh Orteig Prize.
Transatlantic flights had been done for nearly a decade before
Lindberg (Or Byrd, or Nungesser & Coli, ir Wooster) entered into the
picture. While not reoutine, there had been a number of crossings,
but of either so limited value (Alcock & Browm - a great flight, mind,
but so razor-edged that it wasn't in any wise anything but a valiant
first attempt) or required a system and infrastructure equivalant to
the Shuttle R.34 and the Graf Zeppelin) The Orteig Prize was large
enough to get civilians involved, rather than governments, and allow
the civilians to finance "responsible", rather than daredevil,
projects.

If the U.S. or Soviet Governments had seen any need for a 3-seat
Spaceplane, they were perfectly capable of building one in the early
1960s. They didn't need one. The X-Prize is serving to jumpstart the
civilian side at teh most basic (and most attainable level).

--
Pete Stickney
A strong conviction that something must be done is the parent of many
bad measures. -- Daniel Webster