Contact Approach

Can ATC clear an aircraft for a contact approach to an airport which has no
weather reporting?

"Stan Prevost" wrote in message
...

Can ATC clear an aircraft for a contact approach to an airport which has
no weather reporting?


No, a contact approach requires a reported ground visibility of at least one
mile.

Yes,

Ground visibility should be at least 1 SM and the pilot have to request
the contact approach.
Raf

"Steven P. McNicoll" a écrit dans le message de
news: t...

"Stan Prevost" wrote in message
...

Can ATC clear an aircraft for a contact approach to an airport which
has
no weather reporting?


No, a contact approach requires a reported ground visibility of at least
one
mile.

"raphaël langumier" wrote in message
...

Yes,

Ground visibility should be at least 1 SM and the pilot have to request
the contact approach.


No, the reported ground visibility MUST be at least 1 statute mile. The
pilot must request the contact approach and the airport must have a
functioning IAP as well.

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
ink.net...


No, the reported ground visibility MUST be at least 1 statute mile. The
pilot must request the contact approach and the airport must have a
functioning IAP as well.


A local field with part-time tower (Class D airspace when tower is open) has
restricted areas in close proximity. When these areas are active, ATC will
not approve the SIAPs. There is no notation on the approach plate, nor any
NOTAM, that says the approaches are not allowed when the restricted areas
are active. There is no AWOS/ASOS reporting over the radio or telephone,
but recently the field began putting METARs into the system. I don't know
if the tower personnel are certified weather observers or not, so I don't
know if their observations qualify as "reported" visibility, nor do I know
if the METAR visibility report qualifies as "reported ground visibility". I
was hoping someone knew of some rule that allowed a substitute for an
official ground visibility report. There is certified weather observing at
a larger field five miles away, but I don't suppose that would do.

When the restricted areas are active, there is no way to get back into the
field in IMC other than a visual or contact approach. MVA is 2400 MSL,
about 1700 AGL. Well, there may be two. One is to fly the ILS into the
adjacent Class C airspace, then cancel and maneuver around the restricted
areas at 1000 AGL if cloud conditions permit, which would require 3 miles
visibility. The other possibility is that there is a PAR approach available
sometimes. I haven't asked if they will approve it when the restricted
areas are active. The problem, I think, is the missed approach. Circling
is not allowed east of the runway due to terrain, and for the two published
IAPs, the missed goes on the west side, which is where one of the restricted
areas is. Since there is no published missed for the PAR approach, or for a
visual or contact approach, I don't know what they will do. I have flown a
visual into the field when the ceiling was overcast at 2400 MSL, but it was
a stretch to say I had the field in sight. A contact approach would have
been better.

I think I just need to go talk to these people.

Stan Prevost wrote:

I think I just need to go talk to these people.

That sounds right.

FWIW, I've encountered another place where nearby restricted airspace determines
whether or not you'll get an approach, W95, Ocracoke Island, NC.

Whichever approach you get, either the approach course or the missed approach
bumps up against R5306A. To compound the problem, the only approach facility is
Washington Center, and once you get down to approach altitudes, they have
neither radar nor comm coverage.

Nice to have the approaches published, but so far I've never been able to get
center to clear me for one of them.

"Stan Prevost" wrote in message
...

A local field with part-time tower (Class D airspace when tower is open)
has restricted areas in close proximity. When these areas are active, ATC
will not approve the SIAPs. There is no notation on the approach plate,
nor any NOTAM, that says the approaches are not allowed when the
restricted areas are active. There is no AWOS/ASOS reporting over the
radio or telephone, but recently the field began putting METARs into the
system. I don't know if the tower personnel are certified weather
observers or not, so I don't know if their observations qualify as
"reported" visibility, nor do I know if the METAR visibility report
qualifies as "reported ground visibility".


If these observations didn't qualify as "reported" visibility they wouldn't
be in the system.



I was hoping someone knew of
some rule that allowed a substitute for an official ground visibility
report.


There is no substitute.



There is certified weather observing at a larger field five miles
away, but I don't suppose that would do.


Nope.



When the restricted areas are active, there is no way to get back into the
field in IMC other than a visual or contact approach. MVA is 2400 MSL,
about 1700 AGL. Well, there may be two. One is to fly the ILS into the
adjacent Class C airspace, then cancel and maneuver around the restricted
areas at 1000 AGL if cloud conditions permit, which would require 3 miles
visibility. The other possibility is that there is a PAR approach
available sometimes. I haven't asked if they will approve it when the
restricted areas are active. The problem, I think, is the missed
approach. Circling is not allowed east of the runway due to terrain, and
for the two published IAPs, the missed goes on the west side, which is
where one of the restricted areas is. Since there is no published missed
for the PAR approach, or for a visual or contact approach, I don't know
what they will do. I have flown a visual into the field when the ceiling
was overcast at 2400 MSL, but it was a stretch to say I had the field in
sight. A contact approach would have been better.


What field is this?

"Stan Prevost" wrote in message ...
....
A local field with part-time tower (Class D airspace when tower is open) has restricted areas in close
proximity. When these areas are active, ATC will not approve the SIAPs. There is no notation on the
approach plate, nor any NOTAM, that says the approaches are not allowed when the restricted areas are active.
There is no AWOS/ASOS reporting over the radio or telephone, but recently the field began putting METARs into
the system. I don't know if the tower personnel are certified weather observers or not, so I don't know if
their observations qualify as "reported" visibility, nor do I know if the METAR visibility report qualifies
as "reported ground visibility". I was hoping someone knew of some rule that allowed a substitute for an
official ground visibility report. There is certified weather observing at a larger field five miles away,
but I don't suppose that would do.

When the restricted areas are active, there is no way to get back into the field in IMC other than a visual
or contact approach. MVA is 2400 MSL, about 1700 AGL. Well, there may be two. One is to fly the ILS into
the adjacent Class C airspace, then cancel and maneuver around the restricted areas at 1000 AGL if cloud
conditions permit, which would require 3 miles visibility. The other possibility is that there is a PAR
approach available sometimes. I haven't asked if they will approve it when the restricted areas are active.
The problem, I think, is the missed approach. Circling is not allowed east of the runway due to terrain, and
for the two published IAPs, the missed goes on the west side, which is where one of the restricted areas is.
Since there is no published missed for the PAR approach, or for a visual or contact approach, I don't know
what they will do. I have flown a visual into the field when the ceiling was overcast at 2400 MSL, but it
was a stretch to say I had the field in sight. A contact approach would have been better.

I think I just need to go talk to these people.



What airport is that?

Thanks,
John Clonts
Temple, Texas
N7NZ

"raphaël langumier" wrote in message
...
Yes,

Ground visibility should be at least 1 SM and the pilot have to request
the contact approach.
Raf


The AIM says that, to request the contact approach, the pilot must have one
mile *flight* visibility. For ATC to approve the request, the *reported*
*ground* visibility must be one mile.

The question is really how literally that "reported ground visibility" rule
is used. Is a PIREP acceptable? Are conditions observed five miles away by
a certified human weather observer acceptable? Can any tower controller at
the field make an acceptable report? Is the AWOS/ASOS observation "ground
visibility"? Will a METAR report 45 minutes old suffice? Or must it
absolutely be a certified weather observer on the field reporting current
conditions to whoever calls on the landline? Or what?

Stan

My book say PIREPs are acceptable for the fact that I have to disseminate
them. Controllers can make a ground vis report. AWOS/ASOS is ground vis.
METARs 45 minutes old will suffice due to the requirements of issuing a new
METAR when the vis changes by a reportable value. And if my memory serves
me right, that is +/- 1/4 mile when it gets down around 1 mile. Also, I say
it doesn't have to be an "absolutely certified weather observer", if that
was the case there would be no such thing as a contact approach. That's
my take on it, any ideas from you pilots?

oneatcer

"Stan Prevost" wrote in message
...

"raphaël langumier" wrote in message
...
Yes,

Ground visibility should be at least 1 SM and the pilot have to request
the contact approach.
Raf


The AIM says that, to request the contact approach, the pilot must have
one
mile *flight* visibility. For ATC to approve the request, the *reported*
*ground* visibility must be one mile.

The question is really how literally that "reported ground visibility"
rule
is used. Is a PIREP acceptable? Are conditions observed five miles away
by
a certified human weather observer acceptable? Can any tower controller
at
the field make an acceptable report? Is the AWOS/ASOS observation "ground
visibility"? Will a METAR report 45 minutes old suffice? Or must it
absolutely be a certified weather observer on the field reporting current
conditions to whoever calls on the landline? Or what?

Stan