Check in ...East Coast BLACKOUT

Montblack wrote:

My comment was home phone "wire" (singular) + DSL wire (singular) = 1
standard household phone wire pair. Maybe could have been more clear. I
meant "each" wire inside the pair. You (and Peter Gottlieb) read 2 separate
pair of wires - I think.

There's no way any phone service can use a single wire. Phone service, like
electrical service, requires two or more conductors. In phone parlance, this is
a "loop". In electrical parlance, this is a power and neutral. Now. The typical
"drop", that is, the cable coming into your house, contains four wires. Enough
for two telephones.

Now I'm confused. Is my DSL running at higher frequencies, over the same
(single) wire strand that my voice is running on?

Most (or all) DSL uses higher frequencies than voice and runs on the same wire
pair as your voice connection. I have never heard of a subscriber DSL line that
requires 4 wires, though some other types of digital lines do.

George Patterson
Brute force has an elegance all its own.

Big John wrote:

My explanation is basically correct.

Indeed it is.

George Patterson
Brute force has an elegance all its own.

Russell Kent wrote:

The DSL person may have not used precisely correct terminology.

The DSL person didn't know his ass from a hole in the ground.

George Patterson
Brute force has an elegance all its own.

"G.R. Patterson III" writes:



Roy Smith wrote:

Of course, it doesn't always work that way. I remember something like
10-15 years ago, a major long-distance switch in Manhattan went down.

I was working for Bell Communications Research at the time. As I recall, it
was a CEV containing multiplexing and digitizing equipment. A lot of Wall
Street traffic went through there. It did not have its own backup generators,
and, as you stated, someone disabled the alarm after it went off. Normally,
field crews would be sent out with portable generators before shutting the
alarm off, but someone screwed up.

I believe Roy is referring to the ATT toll tandem and DACS. There
is a very bitter irony to the story. ATT had a deal with ConEd to
"load shed" ie if ConEd got overworked, ATT would go to diesel for
short periods to ease the strain. {Many large customers have similar
deals; they get big price breaks for doing so..}

ConEd called, ATT shed load, and later returned to the grid.
BUT..several of their rectifiers ('battery chargers') on that floor
failed to restart. The trouble was, none of the power people were
there -- as they were all at a training session .... for the new
power failure monitoring system...

By the time a power employee got back and heard the alarm, the
batteries were too near exhausting to recover. It took hours to
bring everything back up, during which all three NYC airports were
down since the DACS [an electronic patch panel for leased circuits]
ran all of FAA's circuits.

One result was a crack in the FTS2000 sole-source contract. This
debacle forced OMB to allow FAA to rent some service from others.


--
A host is a host from coast to
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433

Newps writes:



Montblack wrote:



Now I'm confused. Is my DSL running at higher frequencies, over the same
(single) wire strand that my voice is running on? Or is it running on the
second wire strand, in my standard household wire - which contains 2 wire
strands? Or is it using both strands?

It takes two wires to have a voice line. There are typically 4 wires in
a residential phone line; red, green, yellow and black.

There are 4 wires in older INSIDE WIRING IN YOUR HOUSE. That's
different from the outside plant from the CO to your house.

Normally the
first phone number uses the red and green wires. The other two will be
for your second phone number, should you get one. The DSL uses the same
two wires as your first phone number, with a filter to keep the two
things separate.

And if your IW is newer, it's likely 3-4 pair; blue/white & white/blue;
orange/white [etc], greeen/white, & brown/white...

--
A host is a host from coast to
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433

Martin Hotze wrote:

"G.R. Patterson III" wrote:

I have never heard of a subscriber DSL line that
requires 4 wires, though some other types of digital lines do.

you can use 2 copper pairs and make that a 4 mbit/s (4.6, to be correct)
G.HDSL connection (up and down the same). you can bond up to 4 pairs
together for a 9.6 mbit/s DSL line (or you use 1 pair for up to 8 mbit
down and up to 1 mbit up).

Correct, but those are not normally considered to be subscriber DSL services.
Those are sold as business services.

George Patterson
Brute force has an elegance all its own.

"David Lesher" wrote in message ...


The other possibility is you don't have ADSL but rather its cousin
SDSL that does not share the loop. It *IS* theoritically possible
to have ADSL without a phone using the loop, but there are several
reasons it does not happen -- one is Ma could never grok the paperwork
to assign a DSLAM port to that pair,

That is the primary stopper right there. It's hard enough to set up line sharing
even when everything is straightforward. I can't imagine trying to convince them
how to do line-sharing on a line which has nothing on it to share. What telephone
number ?

Ron Natalie wrote:

"David Lesher" wrote in message ...


The other possibility is you don't have ADSL but rather its cousin
SDSL that does not share the loop. It *IS* theoritically possible
to have ADSL without a phone using the loop, but there are several
reasons it does not happen -- one is Ma could never grok the paperwork
to assign a DSLAM port to that pair,

That is the primary stopper right there. It's hard enough to set up line sharing
even when everything is straightforward. I can't imagine trying to convince them
how to do line-sharing on a line which has nothing on it to share. What telephone
number ?

I'll check the network interface tonight, but I'm pretty sure that there's no filter anywhere
near the house. IIRC, the installer said something about fiber to the pedestal, and hooking
the Y-K pair at the pedestal right to the DSLAM. Several years back a company put fiber in
the neighborhood, then went under, then SBC bought the "cable plant" of the company. I know
that my neighborhood is *VERY* different than other SBC-served DSL areas. In fact, SBC
thinks I'm a "larger business customer", and occasionally tries to bill me the same. We've
gone round-n-round on days when they change my hookup from DHCP to PPPOE. And don't get me
started on the lunacy of the phone dweeb giving me the 1-800 number for LinkSys when I tell
them that the machine connected to the DSL modem is running Linux (say it out loud)...
*sigh*

Russell Kent

"Russell Kent" wrote in message ...

I'll check the network interface tonight, but I'm pretty sure that there's no filter anywhere
near the house. IIRC, the installer said something about fiber to the pedestal, and hooking
the Y-K pair at the pedestal right to the DSLAM.

Oh, one of those. You're danged lucky you have DSL at all. The areas around here that
ran fiber to the mushrooms can't get DSL because nobody wants to put the DSLAMs in
the mushrooms. You're right, you're not linesharing.

Russell Kent writes:


I'll check the network interface tonight, but I'm pretty sure that there's no filter anywhere
near the house. IIRC, the installer said something about fiber to the pedestal, and hooking
the Y-K pair at the pedestal right to the DSLAM. Several years back a company put fiber in
the neighborhood, then went under, then SBC bought the "cable plant" of the company. I know
that my neighborhood is *VERY* different than other SBC-served DSL areas.

Yep. That's FTTC - Fiber to the Curb. It uses a separate pair from
the curb to your house. (Since it's only the local drop, Assigning
Dept. does not have to track that at all.) That explains what you
are saying. It's not ADSL as the masses get at all. The data feed
to the miniDSLAM of some kind in the pedestal comes up separate
channels from the phone lines of you and your neighbors.

Such may use ADSL for the last 100m. The reason, I suspect, is the
cost of the CPE is so low.

As you observe, it makes little economic sense -- the costs are
sky-high and it still "looks" like ADSL to Jill Winecooler.


--
A host is a host from coast to
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433