report runway incursion non-towered airport?

"Joe Johnson" wrote in message
...

Should I report this to the FAA?


If you did, what action would you expect the FAA to take?

Joe Johnson wrote:

As I was on 1/4 to
1/2 mile final, the Citation suddenly took the runway and started the
takeoff roll;

I remember my first landing at a controlled airport with heavy iron.
(Got my primary training at a small grass strip.) I was told by the
tower to continue my approach. The runway was empty. But the very moment
I turned base to final, which is about 1/2 mile from the threshold at
that airport (Zürich), I saw to my surprize a 737 rolling onto the
runway and lining up, obviously cleared by the tower to do so. When I
was about 1/4 mile out, I got uneasy and called the tower, asking what
to do. "Continue approach, the airliner will depart." And so it did.
Plenty of room, a non event.

Stefan

"Stefan" wrote in message
...

I remember my first landing at a controlled airport with heavy iron.
(Got my primary training at a small grass strip.) I was told by the
tower to continue my approach. The runway was empty. But the very moment
I turned base to final, which is about 1/2 mile from the threshold at
that airport (Zürich), I saw to my surprize a 737 rolling onto the
runway and lining up, obviously cleared by the tower to do so. When I
was about 1/4 mile out, I got uneasy and called the tower, asking what
to do. "Continue approach, the airliner will depart." And so it did.
Plenty of room, a non event.

Stefan

Hi Stefan. I've never piloted heavy iron, so feel free to adjust the
numbers. Let's say you were 1/4 mile out travelling at 120 knots. If my
math is right, that's about 7.5 seconds to a collision. That's barely
enough time to call the tower and get a response. I would have considered
going around. I understand going around with a heavy is a big deal. Last
year we had 30G50 at our local class D and I saw a 737 go around because it
couldn't hit a 6500 x 150 ft. (1996 x 46 m) runway.

Joe Johnson wrote:

"Stefan" wrote in message
...


I remember my first landing at a controlled airport with heavy iron.

Hi Stefan. I've never piloted heavy iron, so feel free to adjust the

Me neither. I didn't mean "landing... with heavy iron" but "airport with
heavy iron". I should have written "airport where also heavy iron land".
This adjustes the numbers. The moment I made the call I still had 15 to
20 seconds to touch down.

That said, I am aware that it makes a big difference whether I can speak
to somebody who sais "I've seen you, don't bother", be it a tower or the
other plane, or I have no contact and don't know what will happen next.

Stefan

I've observed at our local airport, when the local airport manager and
some flight instructors pointed it out, how the MD State Police and
Customs helicopters don't report positions when they fly past the airport.
They have these cynical statements like, "I'm still waiting for the day
when they call in their position . . ." and others.

I guess these "officials" are just too consumed with other stuff to
worry about GA pilots safety. Maybe they listen but just go about their
business.

Is this common in other places?

I was also watching a recent news report on getting a tower at FDK
in Maryland, and they referenced several "near misses" with State Police
helicopters - but it makes me think that it was the State Police
who didn't call their positions!
Maybe anecdotal evidence, but still!


Joe Johnson wrote:
Me: 240 hr PP-ASEL, minding my own business, doing touch & goes at an
untowered field, and scrupulously calling my position in every leg of the
pattern.

The offender: pilot of a small Citation jet.

I saw the Citation taxiing toward the active as I was downwind. I watched
the plane carefully (suspiciously) as there was never any transmission on
the CTAF frequency. I listened to departure on my second radio; he/she
wasn't on that frequency either. When I turned base, the Citation was at
the hold short line adjacent to the active threshold. As I was on 1/4 to
1/2 mile final, the Citation suddenly took the runway and started the
takeoff roll; nary a radio call was heard. Prepared for this, I did a 360,
landed, and got the tail number from an airport employee.

Should I report this to the FAA? If so, how? When in the course of an
aviation career does someone become so complacent that they don't say "boo"
before taking an active runway?

We all see lots of idiot drivers on the road. I used to think aviation was
different, both because the training is more rigorous and because the stakes
are so much higher. With all the idiotic and careless mistakes I read about
in NTSB accident reports, I'm beginning to wonder.

Thanks for reading--I'm a little less upset after having written this down.

"GEG" wrote in message
...
....snip...

I guess these "officials" are just too consumed with other stuff to
worry about GA pilots safety. Maybe they listen but just go about their
business.

Is this common in other places?

....snip...

This behavior is consistent with the way the police drive. Around here (SE
New York, including New York City), the cops are the worst drivers. No turn
signals changing lanes or turning, running red lights and stop signs (the
only excuse for which is an emergency, in which the siren & emergency lights
should be on), and other offenses. One would think that they'd have some
concern for their own safety, if not others.'

"GEG" wrote in message
...
I've observed at our local airport, when the local airport manager and
some flight instructors pointed it out, how the MD State Police and
Customs helicopters don't report positions when they fly past the airport.
They have these cynical statements like, "I'm still waiting for the day
when they call in their position . . ." and others.

I guess these "officials" are just too consumed with other stuff to worry
about GA pilots safety. Maybe they listen but just go about their
business.

Is this common in other places?


I had a similar experience at Stead, NV.
I was picking up my Dad.
I saw a helicopter sitting on the active runway.
I called on downwind...no response.
I called on base...no response.
I called on final...no response...helicopter still sitting there.
I made a call that I was "going around to wait for the helicopter to get off
the runway".
To which they replied, "we'll take off parallel to the runway".
It took off, and I landed.

As I came close to it, I noticed it was Nevada Highway Patrol.
Kind of miffed, and being the smart-ass that I am, I called "you gonna give
me a ticket for taxi-ing too fast?".

Guess what...no response.

Not sure what the deal is with these guys.
They were just practicing patterns.
You'd think they could extend the same courtesy as the rest of us.

Adam
N7966L
Beech Super III

On Mon, 28 Feb 2005 02:06:46 GMT, "Joe Johnson"
wrote in : :

Should I report this to the FAA?

Perhaps.

There is a lot of room for error in aviation. You might just calk-up
the incident to experience, and attempt to learn as much as you can
from it by analyzing what occurred and discussing it as you are now.

If you feel that the pilot of the Citation deliberately committed an
unsafe act, and consider him a threat to himself and others, I would
recommend you talk to him directly as a first step. If it turns out
that his explanation of the incident appears unreasonable from your
point of view, consider discussing it with his employer next. Review
his Part 135 documents and see if the broadcasting of self announced
position/intention reports at uncontrolled airports are mentioned in
them. Do some research, and learn all the regulations and attitudes
that are in play.

If it becomes clear that you are dealing with renegade who defend
reckless operations, then it might be time to contact a FSDO
Inspector. Taking that option as a first response denies a fellow
airman an opportunity to redeem himself, and likely will leave an
indelible mark on his FAA record that you may later feel was
unjustified.

Isn't this what you would prefer a fellow airman would do if you
happened to be the offending pilot?

This is just my 2¢.

In a word, Yes.

Not very long ago I witnessed a near miss. I filed a complaint with the
FAA annonymously via the internet. They called the airport to see who
was flying at the time. Well, since it happened a hour after the admin
building closed... The FAA tends to get lazy at times.

Meanwhile, had the two aircraft collided, I would have possibly been
immolated in my car. There was a plane in the process of departing and
I thought he was trying to be cute the way he began a turn as soon as
he rotated (get some Navy types now and then). Then I noticed another
a/c making a hard right turn, right over me who had been on final. Had
they collided, I was close enough, on the high-way that runs past the
end of the runway, to have been part of the ensuing gas shower and
fire.

I have had similar things happen with biz jets as you have just
mentioned. They get so busy with all their stuff that they forget there
are others getting clearances as well. Seems that because of a biz jet
that was in a hurry, I wound up with having to do an intersection
departure to keep approach happy (we were at a non-towered field with
an RCO). Why? because the biz jet cut me off as I was taxiing to the
runway!

So yes, I would at least file an ASRA about it.

Later,
Steve.T
PP ASEL/Instrument

Joe Johnson wrote:
Me: 240 hr PP-ASEL, minding my own business, doing touch & goes at an
untowered field, and scrupulously calling my position in every leg of the
pattern.

Please file a NASA ASRS report! Really! Everyone needs to be
on frequency "if able"!


Best regards,

Jer/ "Flight instruction and mountain flying are my vocation!" Eberhard

--
Jer/ (Slash) Eberhard, Mountain Flying Aviation, LTD, Ft Collins, CO
CELL 970 231-6325 EMAIL jer'at'frii.com WEB http://users.frii.com/jer/
C-206 N9513G, CFII Airplane&Glider, FAA-DEN Aviation Safety Counselor
CAP-CO Mission&Aircraft CheckPilot, BM218 HAM N0FZD, 222 Young Eagles!